Mark Lewisohn will have the definitive answer in 2028
Dec 6, 2017 17:42:19 GMT
Post by My Avatar Is A Hot Babe on Dec 6, 2017 17:42:19 GMT
Arnold Grove said:
Lewisohn in his upcoming book will hopefully tie up all the loose ends about the EMI sessions in 1962. Were they auditions? Were they rehearsals? Were they sessions to definitively make a 45 single? Who was in charge --- George Martin or Ron Richards? Why was the original single released with Ringo on drums; but then was replaced on the Please Please Me LP and later 45's by the version with Andy White? Lots of threads need to be tied up finally, and that's just for 1962.Arnold Grove said:
Of course, since Martin never signed the contract until after the session, then there was a way out of the mess without any legal hassle. But still. Very intriguing. Looking forward to Lewisohn laying it all out definitively in his upcoming book.Arnold Grove said:
The mystery over why there are only 26 on the Red album (as opposed to the 28 on the Blue album) remains a question mark---unless Lewisohn gets around to mentioning it in Volume 3 (or Volume 4, if the book gets extended to even a further volume).Arnold Grove said:
I was asking about this now because She Loves You is from 1963, so it won't be mentioned in the first volume of Lewisohn's upcoming set of books. So it will be awhile before his volume 2 comes out, and we hopefully will get the definitive story about it then.Arnold Grove said:
I'm looking forward to having all the pieces put in place by Lewisohn.Arnold Grove said:
I wonder then if Martin was asked or not in either January or February 1970 (after Glyn Johns last version was nixed; BUT before Spector entered the picture). Of course, we really don't know ---- OR at least we won't until Mark Lewisohn let's us know the exact details in 15 years when his Volume 3 is published. Ohh---that's going to be a long wait....Arnold Grove said:
Summer vacations?Second thoughts on the part of Martin and/or EMI?
Brian promising Martin that they would return only after they kicked out Pete Best (although that didn't occur until mid-August)?
Yes, that definitely needs to be addressed by Lewisohn.
Arnold Grove said:
I think Mona Best is going to loom very large in Lewisohn's book and will be seen to be a key player in many of the dramatic events that The Beatles decided upon in the early days. Her role may be one of the biggest "surprises" of the biography.Arnold Grove said:
And as others have verified and double-checked (and as surely Mark Lewisohn will point out in Volume 2 of his Beatles trilogy), there were no extra drum overdubs done secretly in America on any EMI tracks.Arnold Grove said:
However, I don't know if Martin declined to work anymore on the project, for some as yet unrevealed reason, or if Paul put the song on hold. Maybe Lewisohn will comment on this in Volume 3 (many years from now).Arnold Grove said:
EMI probably just copied the credits from the previous "Please Please Me" 45, but maybe there was something else involved. I'm pretty confident that this will be "revealed" by Lewisohn in Volume 2, but I hate waiting half-a-decade (at least) to find out.Arnold Grove said:
But after nixing Glyn's latest version, was this all left to Klein? Or was George Martin asked, but he turned it down? Or did the 4 give up on it? As you say, it probably won't be explained properly until Lewisohn's Volume 3, due out in 2028 or so....Arnold Grove said:
I wonder what the contact over the years (post-1962) was like between Neil and the Best family. Maybe Lewisohn's new book will delve into this.Arnold Grove said:
Last night, I tried to find some first-hand mention of Ringo on overdubbed drums, but failed in my attempts to find anything of worth. As you say, it may have been mentioned in some interview given by John or Ringo in 1969, but was never put into print, making it hard to find.Or maybe Lewisohn will mention this in the third volume of his Beatles biography. But that third book is at least 2 years away. Oh well....
Arnold Grove said:
I'm not sure if they had secret meetings in person, but there had to have been contact via phone and even letters. (John and Paul were still writing letters to each other in the early 1970s, explaining their view points.) Of course, the only likely person to reveal everything is Mark Lewisohn, whose final volume (Volume 3 of his Beatles biography series) is not due out until 2028. So until then, we are stuck to surmising a lot of info.
Arnold Grove said:
As stated before, I hope that Lewisohn (in the next two volumes of his Beatles trilogy of books) gets around to discussing the reasons for how George's songs were included on Beatles albums or 45s.Arnold Grove said:
That's how Paul met her. After he hooked up with Jane and eventually moved in with her family, he met Peter. Anything more definitive than that will have to wait another 5-7 years until Mark Lewisohn discusses it all in his Volume 2 of his Beatles biography.Arnold Grove said:
I also wonder if they only finalized on doing "I Me Mine" as a new song. But were other songs discussed as possibilities?Of course, it won't be until the year 2028 when Mark Lewisohn gets around to discussing the history behind this session in his last Beatles book.
Arnold Grove said:
Did George and Ringo have a say in the matter? In the latter case (where 2 songs were siphoned off from an LP project), who and how did they decide --- was it a strict vote, or what?Hopefully, Mark Lewisohn will explain this in his upcoming books.
Arnold Grove said:
It really shows how hard it must have been for Paul to simultaneously keep the band going in 1969 in a musical sense while dealing with the lies being spread by Klein about himself and the Eastmans. Lewisohn definitely has his work cut out when he gets around to explaining this chaos in a coherent manner.Arnold Grove said:
And I still wonder why George Martin wasn't given a shot at compiling a full album (presumably using the Glyn Johns tapes as a basis, just as Spector later did) in January 1970 when the Threetles and him worked on the overdubs for the "Let It Be" 45 single and "I Me Mine". OR was Martin asked, but he declined? Answers to be revealed in 2025 in Lewisohn's Volume 3 of his Beatles trilogy of books.Arnold Grove said:
Your analysis on the business end of things is absolutely the best I've read about this. It really cleared up a lot of things that I was formerly confused about. Thanks. I hope Lewisohn is as clear as you are, that is, whenever he gets up to the Volume III in his Beatles biography series.Arnold Grove said:
In fact, those few days in January 1970 of the Threetles were a very interesting bunch of sessions, and I hope that Lewisohn can reveal much more about the behind-the-scenes stuff that went on in getting those sessions together and how they functioned without John. Of course, that won't be discussed until Volume 3 of Lewisohn's trilogy due out in 10 years , if not more. So patience will have to be a virtue...Arnold Grove said:
If the Threetles recorded "I Me Mine", then they could have just as easily recorded a version of "All Things Must Pass" or "Isn't It A Pity" if George wanted to. But George didn't want to. Hopefully, Mark Lewisohn will discuss this in his next 2 books. Otherwise, it may never be revealed properly.
Arnold Grove said:
Yes, that is one of those things that has not been documented properly. That's why it is going to be long wait until hopefully Mark Lewisohn discusses this aspect of the Get Back/Let It Be project in his Volume 3 (due out in 2028---yikes!!!).Arnold Grove said:
The mystery Feb 1969 session will undoubtedly be mentioned in Drop Out: Volume 3 of Lewisohn's Beatles biography series---due out in 4-5 years (??). Patience is needed.Arnold Grove said:
I really can't wait to read Mark Lewisohn's full take of this period of time (September 1969 - January 1970). Of course, I need to hold out until 2028....Arnold Grove said:
I'm sure they could have done a version of "All Things Must Pass" if George insisted. But it seems he didn't insist. (Or he wasn't allowed to insist?)Maybe Mark Lewisohn will eventually discuss this aspect in his Volume 3 of his Beatles opus (due out 2028).
Arnold Grove said:
All will be verified (or not) in Volume 2 of Lewisohn's next book: due out sometime around 2018-2020. So keep everything on hold until then... Arnold Grove said:
It would be good if Mark Lewisohn delves (in his upcoming volumes) into the exact status of George's contributions to Beatles albums and 45s, especially in 1968 and 1969 when his songwriting skills were peaking. Was George told he would always be limited to 2 songs per album? Was this just assumed? Did the band ever discuss it??Arnold Grove said:
But unless I missed some quote from George, the exact reason for how many songs that George was allotted has not been revealed yet.I'm hoping Mark Lewisohn will clue us in to the reasons for this in one of his upcoming Beatles volumes.
Arnold Grove said:
I am not sure of the full extent of his contact with Mona and/or Pete after 1962, but there was likely some contact over the years. I hope that Mark Lewisohn delves into this part of the story in his upcoming Volume 2 of his Beatles biography series.Arnold Grove said:
If you can hold on until 2028, Lewisohn's final Volume 3 of his Beatles biography series will be an eye-opener...Arnold Grove said:
I think we'll just have to wait for Lewisohn's Volume 3 book for the last word on this topic.... Just hold on until 2028, when it is due out. Arnold Grove said:
Another "mysterious" point of their career. What exactly was going on here? Again, there had to have some meetings/phone calls to work out the details of this brief reunion of the 3. Will Mark Lewisohn figure it all out? Stay tuned (or live long enough until at least 2028).Arnold Grove said:
That is something that has not been explained properly. I am hoping to be alive in the year 2028 so that I can read what Mark Lewisohn has to say about it in the third book of his Beatles trilogy.Arnold Grove said:
Accidental overdose is more likely, unless Mark Lewisohn comes up with some new info in his upcoming books (the next 2 volumes of his Beatles biography are due out in 2020 and 2028---so it's a long wait!).Arnold Grove said:
Strangely, "Suzy Parker" (or is it "Suzy's Parlour"??) was not included on any version of the Get Back/Let It Be album compiled by Glyn Johns. It was of course in the film, so it was strange that it was never considered for inclusion in the album. One of those so far unexplained mysteries that need to be solved by Mark Lewisohn.Arnold Grove said:
I still will be looking forward to Mark Lewisohn's (hopefully definitive) take on the breakup in his Volume 3 of his Beatles biography trilogy (due out in 2027 or so). I hope he doesn't pull any punches. Arnold Grove said:
I think Mark Lewisohn better start writing quicker. I don't want to wait until the year 2020 just to find out that the A-sides to the Beatles singles were picked by the Parlophone secretaries on their tea breaks.Arnold Grove said:
Yes, that was the start of their dealings with Dick James. I'm sure Lewisohn will discuss all the details in Volume 2 (out in 2020).Arnold Grove said:
To be analyzed in exquisite detail by Mark Lewisohn in his next Volume II of his Beatles biography, due out 2020.... Arnold Grove said:
But in reality, Paul never bought any shares on the advice of the Eastmans. Maybe the Eastmans told Paul to do that, or maybe they didn't. And I'm not sure if they told him to buy shares on the sly without telling John. (We'll need Lewisohn in Volume 3, due out in 2027, to straighten this part all out!)Arnold Grove said:
The definitive answer will finally be revealed in 2028, when Mark Lewisohn's third volume of his Beatles trilogy is due out. So just be patient... Arnold Grove said:
Yes, this is one of those little periods of time in Beatles history (January 1970) were there is very little information about what was going on behind the scenes. I expect that a description of this time will be one of my favorite chapters in Lewisohn's Tune In Volume 3.Arnold Grove said:
I know it's a LONG ways off, but I am really going to be excited to finally read what went on in January-April 1970 in Lewisohn's last volume in his trilogy. So much info during that time period has been kept under wraps, and I hope Mark can clear it all up.Arnold Grove said:
All to be revealed in Chapter 24 of Lewisohn's Volume 2 of his Beatles biography, due out exactly 5 years from today (according to an unscientific bit of guesswork)!! Arnold Grove said:
Maybe Lewisohn will reveal a bit more about this in Volume 2.Arnold Grove said:
Maybe Lewisohn in his next book (not due out until 2020!) will add some light to whom exactly did the overdubs on the Sheridan tracks.Arnold Grove said:
Lewisohn will devote 300 pages to that trip alone. Just kidding of course, but I expect Mark to devote a few pages to it.
Arnold Grove said:
I know this will be part of Lewisohn's third volume in his trilogy, but I don't know how he will fit it all in one book (along with 1967 and 1968).Arnold Grove said:
Look for the definitive resolution of the "medals" question in Volume 2 of Lewisohn's Beatles biography due out in 2020. Until then, and that's hoping the volume includes 1967 and we don't have to wait for Volume 3, then I am sure this incident will be mentioned.Arnold Grove said:
Yes. And I hope that Lewisohn does indeed describe these things in the third volume in his series. Still, I don't know how he'll be able to include all of 1967-1970 in one volume, and then also include a few chapter on the 1970s. He may have to add a fourth volume.Arnold Grove said:
Lewisohn will reveal the exact details in his next volume in 2020.Arnold Grove said:
Yes, all the books explain what went wrong in January 1969. BUT none of them explain what happened in November/December 1968. Maybe Lewisohn will be able to lay out the facts.Arnold Grove said:
Not so fast. Just wait for Volume 2 of Lewisohn's Tune In. All will be revealed ... Arnold Grove said:
Until Mark Lewisohn provides the final proof, here is our best estimate:Definitely: Late August 1969, Tittenhurst photo shoot
Probable: September 1969, Apple meeting(s)
Possible: Fall 1969, undisclosed Apple meetings(s)
Unlikely: 1970-1971, further undisclosed Apple meetings---But if Allen Klein was going to attend, then Paul would NOT have been present.
Impossible: After John moved to the USA in 1971, all 4 were never in the same city at the same time
Arnold Grove said:
I just wonder the details of Nicky's invite for "Revolution". Maybe Lewisohn will mention this in one of his future books.Arnold Grove said:
I'm glad that you are keeping track of all these unsolved mysteries. Also, add the mysterious Beatles sessions at Apple Studio in February 1969 to the list. Lewisohn needs to figure out what those were all about.Arnold Grove said:
We may not know the exact story until Lewisohn discusses this song in Volume 3 of his Beatles book series.Arnold Grove said:
Well, you have 12 years to figure it out before Lewisohn prints the exact date in the third and final book in his Beatles trilogy (due out in 2028).Arnold Grove said:
I think this will be an aspect that Mark Lewisohn should provide insights in his next volumes of The Beatles.Arnold Grove said:
So I await Lewisohn's analysis of what really happened in 2020 or 2027...Arnold Grove said:
It's all very murky. Unless Lewisohn devotes a few pages to this question in his upcoming volume, I don't think we'll ever get a satisfactory answer.Arnold Grove said:
Oh, I'm sure that Lewisohn will provide lots of amazing details for the next bunch of years to be described in the upcoming volume two.Arnold Grove said:
Not many details are known, but I'm looking forward to what Lewisohn will relate in (hopefully) his next book.Arnold Grove said:
All we can do is surmise about this. I hope though that Lewisohn will explain it all eventually.Arnold Grove said:
Lewisohn, if he completes his third book, will reveal the answers in 2027-28 (according to the projected schedule).Arnold Grove said:
Those medals in Roag's book do look like the medals worm by John and Ringo. BUT how'd they get 2 sets? Another mystery for Lewisohn to solve.Arnold Grove said:
That would be perfect timing since Tune In Volume II should be out in about 4 years, and Mark Lewisohn will reveal exactly who she is in Chapter 38. Arnold Grove said:
With our luck, Volume 2 of Lewisohn's trilogy will end right before the session where the Ahhh's were recorded for "A Day In The Life". So we'll be waiting for Volume 3 regardless... Arnold Grove said:
I'm sure that this will be a topic to be discussed in Lewisohn's next volume, especially as it will pick up at the start of 1963 when the shift in balance was ready to take effect.Arnold Grove said:
I hope that Mark Lewisohn will discuss this topic in his upcoming two volumes (whenever they eventually are published in 2021 and 2028, hopefully).Arnold Grove said:
That part is likely to be true, as Bernie worked as a session player for ATCO (although there is no definitive paperwork to even back this up---unless Mark Lewisohn has found some recently).Arnold Grove said:
And I hope Lewisohn explains how/why George exceeded his quota and got 3 songs on Revolver.Arnold Grove said:
It's possible that Purdie could be mentioned in a footnote of Volume 2. (I doubt he'll be mentioned in the regular text.) Some of the ATCO Sheridan/Beatles stuff had drum overdubs added in 1964, which falls into the time period for Volume 2.Arnold Grove said:
Mark Lewisohn will verify, or not, this claim in the final volume of his Beatles series of books in 2028 (at the earliest).Arnold Grove said:
I'm sure that Lewisohn will comment about this in detail in his next book.Arnold Grove said:
It's a fine line, and Lewisohn is going to have to be careful too. Brian Epstein's bad business deals and his death might both be discussed in Volume 2, so Mark will have to tread delicately.Arnold Grove said:
We'll need to wait another 10 years at the minimum to read what Lewisohn says about all of this.Arnold Grove said:
He knows Mark Lewisohn is going to be revealing things soon that have never been mentioned, so Paul is beating him to the punch.