Doors thread deleted (reasons unknown?)
Jan 7, 2018 20:08:43 GMT
Post by antiram on Jan 7, 2018 20:08:43 GMT
For reasons unknown this thread was deleted as I was reading it. It was yet another "what if" thread, but I don't see anything offensive on it, unless the trouble started on page 2. I only saw page 1.
If Jim lived, would he have come back to The Doors?
Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Captain Leo, Today at 12:47 PM.
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Captain Leo
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Calling all Doors experts....
Is it known with any degree of certainty, that had Jim lived, would he have done another record with The Doors? Was Paris intended as quiet retirement? Or simply living as a fugitive while he awaited the outcome of his appeals? Or simply a vacation? I've heard variously that he intended to return to the US in October 1971, and in other places that he never wanted to return to the U.S. Likewise, I've heard he was quite pleased with the warm reception to L.A. Woman and said something like, "If they liked that, wait till they see what I've got next" and yet I've also heard he was basically done with The Doors.
Those who know more, fill me in please.
Captain Leo, Today at 12:47 PM #1
Chrome_Head
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Hard to say--but I really think they would've ended up doing something a bit along the lines of An American Prayer at some point, actually--straight up, spoken word poetry from Jim.
Had he lived, I like to think the band would've fully reunited at some point, in some fashion. Difficult to imagine them creating in the pop climate of the 70's though.
Chrome_Head, Today at 12:58 PM #2
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Jose Jones
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Nobody knows.
Jose Jones, Today at 12:59 PM #3
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curbach
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No, I think he would have hooked up with the Scorpions.
curbach, Today at 12:59 PM #4
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bRETT
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Much of the Other Voices material was written with the assumption that he'd come back and sing over it.
bRETT, Today at 12:59 PM #5
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Mr wiggles
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I think the fact the rest of the band attempted to go on without him suggests he would have.
Mr wiggles, Today at 1:01 PM #6
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Captain Leo
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Chrome_Head said: ↑
Hard to say--but I really think they would've ended up doing something a bit along the lines of An American Prayer at some point, actually--straight up, spoken word poetry from Jim.
Had he lived, I like to think the band would've fully reunited at some point, in some fashion. Difficult to imagine them creating in the pop climate of the 70's though.
Why's that? The Stones had a similar sound as The Doors at the point ('71) and they survived. Morrison Hotel ('70) and L.A. Woman ('71) showed they could rock and do the blues as well as anyone else....They might not have played as hard as Led Zeppelin or as dark as Black Sabbath but they didn't need to. I mean this is the decade that gave us KISS and Aerosmith...As long as Jim's songwriting kept up with good songs, I don't see why they could've remained competitive. Look at The Beatles' solo works. Very very hippie stuff (George especially) and remained commercially competitive into 1974/1975.
I mean if the Grateful Dead could survive the 70s why not The Doors?
Captain Leo, Today at 1:01 PM #7
PaulKTF
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Yeah because he probably knew that's where the money was.
PaulKTF, Today at 1:03 PM #8
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Trainspotting
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I always thought he went to Paris as an extended vacation, and that he had every intention of returning to work with the band.
Trainspotting, Today at 1:05 PM #9
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keifspoon
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My perception is, that they always left the door open.
keifspoon, Today at 1:06 PM #10
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jawaka1000
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I can picture Jim with makeup and a glitter suit.
jawaka1000, Today at 1:08 PM #11
Captain Leo
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Trainspotting said: ↑
I always thought he went to Paris as an extended vacation, and that he had every intention of returning to work with the band.
The big question is the Miami legal situation. He had been sentenced in September 1970 to several months hard labor for indecent exposure. He was waiting on his appeal when he died. That's the big question. Of course The Doors could've come to Paris and done a record there but touring would be out of the question....
He was trim and in much better shape, ironically, when he died, then he had been in a long time. I tend to believe the story that he snorted Pam's heroin mistaking it for cocaine and overdosed and she covered it up.
6/28/1971:
[IMG]
[IMG]
Captain Leo, Today at 1:12 PM #12
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Trainspotting
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Yeah, I'm surprised he was allowed to leave the country when his case was on appeal.
Trainspotting, Today at 1:16 PM #13
Efus
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Captain Leo said: ↑
Why's that? The Stones had a similar sound as The Doors at the point ('71) and they survived....
I mean if the Grateful Dead could survive the 70s why not The Doors?
I think short-term, Chrome, is right.
LA Woman was a great album, Doors looked liked they had turned the corner, but Jim was clearly burnt out.
A rest, a vanity project like formally recording some of his poetry, may have been just the thing to help him get it back together
and re-focused on music.
IMO, musically, Riders on the Storm being the last cut, tells me a more mature laidback jazz influenced sound was probably the direction they were heading in.
Efus, Today at 1:21 PM #14
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rjp
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jim, hmmmmm
jim would have still gotten fat and ended up in hollywood acting in bad movies.
every 5 or so years the doors would make a new album and tour because they needed money.
they would not be even close to receiving the adoration they receive now had jim lived. guaranteed.
rjp, Today at 1:46 PM #15
bobc
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Definitely. Why wouldn't he? There would have been plenty of money in it. OK, legal issues and stuff, but that would have made great publicity.
My worry is, just doing the old songs again might have been a bit of a drag. Did he and the Doors have the ability to create any new songs that might have come through?
If it all would have finished in lamé suits in Vegas, maybe it's better it ended where it did.
bobc, Today at 1:46 PM #16
Pierino
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Yes, I think he would've returned to The Doors and they would've released a new album in 1972. They were just too good as musicians and especially Jim as a singer. And, if what I read is correct, after Paul Rothchild left, the recording of L.A. Woman went on without any serious hitches, which can't be said for some other Doors' albums. The bigger question is what The Doors would've done about live performances. I think they got to the point where their patience was wearing thin with Jim's shenanigans. Some major changes would've had to be made with touring, and of course, that would have to start with Jim's...problems. That's where things would've gotten very interesting, both for Jim and the band.
Pierino, Today at 1:47 PM #17
rockclassics
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I think Jim wanted the focus on him to die down before he would have returned. As I recall he was tired of being the center of attention in the band.
I also agree the Doors music would have shifted a bit if he had returned. Jim always considered himself a poet first and a rock singer was second.
I always envision what Ship With Sails from Other Voices would have sounded like with Jim singing. It would have been a great followup to Riders on the Storm. I can also hear Jim singing Tightrope Ride.
rockclassics, Today at 1:49 PM #18
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Siegmund
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Hard to say: he gave contradictory accounts of what his intentions were. The most enticing is that he was planning something even more 'mind-blowing' as a follow-up to LAW.
Ironically, despite creating the template of the modern 'rock star', Jim doesn't seem to have liked rock and roll much. Part of him seemed to want to be a serious academic - a real case of the Dionysian impulse at war with the Apollonian one.
He does seem to have had a death wish, though, so he was probably doomed whatever he chose to do.
Siegmund, Today at 1:52 PM #19
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perplexed
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Nah, if he lived I picture him becoming more or less a poet/author like Charles Bukowski. Maybe he gets back into film.
perplexed, Today at 1:53 PM #20
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daca
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I would take the under. IMHO, Jim wasn’t driven by money. If he needed money, he could have gotten what he needed.
The Doors, as people knew it, would have ceased to exist.
Jim was done with the “rock scene” and the limelight.
[IMG]
daca, Today at 1:55 PM #21
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JamieC
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We have actually been chewing this over for a while
Jim Morrison: Would he have continued with The Doors?
JamieC, 58 minutes ago #22
Captain Leo
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daca said: ↑
I would take the under. IMHO, Jim wasn’t driven by money. If he needed money, he could have gotten what he needed.
The Doors, as people knew it, would have ceased to exist.
Jim was done with the “rock scene” and the limelight.
[IMG]
Click to expand...
That's always been such a cool picture. That's the session he recorded his poems on, his last birthday I believe.
Captain Leo, 47 minutes ago #23
Captain Leo
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Siegmund said: ↑
Hard to say: he gave contradictory accounts of what his intentions were. The most enticing is that he was planning something even more 'mind-blowing' as a follow-up to LAW.
Ironically, despite creating the template of the modern 'rock star', Jim doesn't seem to have liked rock and roll much. Part of him seemed to want to be a serious academic - a real case of the Dionysian impulse at war with the Apollonian one.
He does seem to have had a death wish, though, so he was probably doomed whatever he chose to do.
One thing I tend to wonder is how much of Other Voices was written before he died?
How much was intended for Jim?
Because honestly, Ships with Sails and Tightrope Ride would've been "mind-blowing" with Jim on vocals and providing his lyrics.
I'd have loved to see them take an even rockier direction in the later 70s and given Ray's later interest in the LA punk scene (with which I do believe Jim would've had a degree of cred) who knows. I don't see LA Punks hating Jim the way they hated Mick Jagger or Elton John. He may not have been one of THEM but he was more of an authentic rebel.
Captain Leo, 46 minutes ago #24
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tinnox
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Isn’t he still in retirement?!
tinnox, 41 minutes ago #25
Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Captain Leo, Today at 12:47 PM.
Page 1 of 2
12Next >
Captain Leo
Captain Leo
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Thread Starter
Location:Queens, New York
Calling all Doors experts....
Is it known with any degree of certainty, that had Jim lived, would he have done another record with The Doors? Was Paris intended as quiet retirement? Or simply living as a fugitive while he awaited the outcome of his appeals? Or simply a vacation? I've heard variously that he intended to return to the US in October 1971, and in other places that he never wanted to return to the U.S. Likewise, I've heard he was quite pleased with the warm reception to L.A. Woman and said something like, "If they liked that, wait till they see what I've got next" and yet I've also heard he was basically done with The Doors.
Those who know more, fill me in please.
Captain Leo, Today at 12:47 PM #1
Chrome_Head
Chrome_Head
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Location:Los Angeles, CA.
Hard to say--but I really think they would've ended up doing something a bit along the lines of An American Prayer at some point, actually--straight up, spoken word poetry from Jim.
Had he lived, I like to think the band would've fully reunited at some point, in some fashion. Difficult to imagine them creating in the pop climate of the 70's though.
Chrome_Head, Today at 12:58 PM #2
andrewskyDE likes this.
Jose Jones
Jose Jones
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Nobody knows.
Jose Jones, Today at 12:59 PM #3
Efus likes this.
curbach
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No, I think he would have hooked up with the Scorpions.
curbach, Today at 12:59 PM #4
andrewskyDE, Fullbug and Efus like this.
bRETT
bRETT
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Much of the Other Voices material was written with the assumption that he'd come back and sing over it.
bRETT, Today at 12:59 PM #5
andrewskyDE, driverdrummer, Dudley Morris and 2 others like this.
Mr wiggles
Mr wiggles
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I think the fact the rest of the band attempted to go on without him suggests he would have.
Mr wiggles, Today at 1:01 PM #6
Efus likes this.
Captain Leo
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Chrome_Head said: ↑
Hard to say--but I really think they would've ended up doing something a bit along the lines of An American Prayer at some point, actually--straight up, spoken word poetry from Jim.
Had he lived, I like to think the band would've fully reunited at some point, in some fashion. Difficult to imagine them creating in the pop climate of the 70's though.
Why's that? The Stones had a similar sound as The Doors at the point ('71) and they survived. Morrison Hotel ('70) and L.A. Woman ('71) showed they could rock and do the blues as well as anyone else....They might not have played as hard as Led Zeppelin or as dark as Black Sabbath but they didn't need to. I mean this is the decade that gave us KISS and Aerosmith...As long as Jim's songwriting kept up with good songs, I don't see why they could've remained competitive. Look at The Beatles' solo works. Very very hippie stuff (George especially) and remained commercially competitive into 1974/1975.
I mean if the Grateful Dead could survive the 70s why not The Doors?
Captain Leo, Today at 1:01 PM #7
PaulKTF
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Yeah because he probably knew that's where the money was.
PaulKTF, Today at 1:03 PM #8
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Trainspotting
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I always thought he went to Paris as an extended vacation, and that he had every intention of returning to work with the band.
Trainspotting, Today at 1:05 PM #9
andrewskyDE likes this.
keifspoon
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My perception is, that they always left the door open.
keifspoon, Today at 1:06 PM #10
andrewskyDE, Mr wiggles, Fullbug and 3 others like this.
jawaka1000
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I can picture Jim with makeup and a glitter suit.
jawaka1000, Today at 1:08 PM #11
Captain Leo
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Trainspotting said: ↑
I always thought he went to Paris as an extended vacation, and that he had every intention of returning to work with the band.
The big question is the Miami legal situation. He had been sentenced in September 1970 to several months hard labor for indecent exposure. He was waiting on his appeal when he died. That's the big question. Of course The Doors could've come to Paris and done a record there but touring would be out of the question....
He was trim and in much better shape, ironically, when he died, then he had been in a long time. I tend to believe the story that he snorted Pam's heroin mistaking it for cocaine and overdosed and she covered it up.
6/28/1971:
[IMG]
[IMG]
Captain Leo, Today at 1:12 PM #12
andrewskyDE, Musicman1998 and Fullbug like this.
Trainspotting
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Yeah, I'm surprised he was allowed to leave the country when his case was on appeal.
Trainspotting, Today at 1:16 PM #13
Efus
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Captain Leo said: ↑
Why's that? The Stones had a similar sound as The Doors at the point ('71) and they survived....
I mean if the Grateful Dead could survive the 70s why not The Doors?
I think short-term, Chrome, is right.
LA Woman was a great album, Doors looked liked they had turned the corner, but Jim was clearly burnt out.
A rest, a vanity project like formally recording some of his poetry, may have been just the thing to help him get it back together
and re-focused on music.
IMO, musically, Riders on the Storm being the last cut, tells me a more mature laidback jazz influenced sound was probably the direction they were heading in.
Efus, Today at 1:21 PM #14
andrewskyDE likes this.
rjp
rjp
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jim, hmmmmm
jim would have still gotten fat and ended up in hollywood acting in bad movies.
every 5 or so years the doors would make a new album and tour because they needed money.
they would not be even close to receiving the adoration they receive now had jim lived. guaranteed.
rjp, Today at 1:46 PM #15
bobc
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Definitely. Why wouldn't he? There would have been plenty of money in it. OK, legal issues and stuff, but that would have made great publicity.
My worry is, just doing the old songs again might have been a bit of a drag. Did he and the Doors have the ability to create any new songs that might have come through?
If it all would have finished in lamé suits in Vegas, maybe it's better it ended where it did.
bobc, Today at 1:46 PM #16
Pierino
Pierino
Well-Known Member
Location:Canonsburg
Yes, I think he would've returned to The Doors and they would've released a new album in 1972. They were just too good as musicians and especially Jim as a singer. And, if what I read is correct, after Paul Rothchild left, the recording of L.A. Woman went on without any serious hitches, which can't be said for some other Doors' albums. The bigger question is what The Doors would've done about live performances. I think they got to the point where their patience was wearing thin with Jim's shenanigans. Some major changes would've had to be made with touring, and of course, that would have to start with Jim's...problems. That's where things would've gotten very interesting, both for Jim and the band.
Pierino, Today at 1:47 PM #17
rockclassics
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I think Jim wanted the focus on him to die down before he would have returned. As I recall he was tired of being the center of attention in the band.
I also agree the Doors music would have shifted a bit if he had returned. Jim always considered himself a poet first and a rock singer was second.
I always envision what Ship With Sails from Other Voices would have sounded like with Jim singing. It would have been a great followup to Riders on the Storm. I can also hear Jim singing Tightrope Ride.
rockclassics, Today at 1:49 PM #18
Captain Leo likes this.
Siegmund
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Hard to say: he gave contradictory accounts of what his intentions were. The most enticing is that he was planning something even more 'mind-blowing' as a follow-up to LAW.
Ironically, despite creating the template of the modern 'rock star', Jim doesn't seem to have liked rock and roll much. Part of him seemed to want to be a serious academic - a real case of the Dionysian impulse at war with the Apollonian one.
He does seem to have had a death wish, though, so he was probably doomed whatever he chose to do.
Siegmund, Today at 1:52 PM #19
stunner2020 likes this.
perplexed
perplexed
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Nah, if he lived I picture him becoming more or less a poet/author like Charles Bukowski. Maybe he gets back into film.
perplexed, Today at 1:53 PM #20
andrewskyDE and Beatnik_Daddyo'73 like this.
daca
daca
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I would take the under. IMHO, Jim wasn’t driven by money. If he needed money, he could have gotten what he needed.
The Doors, as people knew it, would have ceased to exist.
Jim was done with the “rock scene” and the limelight.
[IMG]
daca, Today at 1:55 PM #21
andrewskyDE likes this.
JamieC
JamieC
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We have actually been chewing this over for a while
Jim Morrison: Would he have continued with The Doors?
JamieC, 58 minutes ago #22
Captain Leo
Captain Leo
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daca said: ↑
I would take the under. IMHO, Jim wasn’t driven by money. If he needed money, he could have gotten what he needed.
The Doors, as people knew it, would have ceased to exist.
Jim was done with the “rock scene” and the limelight.
[IMG]
Click to expand...
That's always been such a cool picture. That's the session he recorded his poems on, his last birthday I believe.
Captain Leo, 47 minutes ago #23
Captain Leo
Captain Leo
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Siegmund said: ↑
Hard to say: he gave contradictory accounts of what his intentions were. The most enticing is that he was planning something even more 'mind-blowing' as a follow-up to LAW.
Ironically, despite creating the template of the modern 'rock star', Jim doesn't seem to have liked rock and roll much. Part of him seemed to want to be a serious academic - a real case of the Dionysian impulse at war with the Apollonian one.
He does seem to have had a death wish, though, so he was probably doomed whatever he chose to do.
One thing I tend to wonder is how much of Other Voices was written before he died?
How much was intended for Jim?
Because honestly, Ships with Sails and Tightrope Ride would've been "mind-blowing" with Jim on vocals and providing his lyrics.
I'd have loved to see them take an even rockier direction in the later 70s and given Ray's later interest in the LA punk scene (with which I do believe Jim would've had a degree of cred) who knows. I don't see LA Punks hating Jim the way they hated Mick Jagger or Elton John. He may not have been one of THEM but he was more of an authentic rebel.
Captain Leo, 46 minutes ago #24
Musicman1998 likes this.
tinnox
tinnox
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Isn’t he still in retirement?!
tinnox, 41 minutes ago #25
