STeVE re-bumps another one of his old threads; no one cares.
Feb 17, 2018 23:58:24 GMT
Post by Flat Transfer on Feb 17, 2018 23:58:24 GMT
DCCs Cream
Once again, STeVE finds himself longing for the good old days when he had a job of sorts and projects to work on that were not Bread, Loggins & Messina of the Best of Time life. This was when he had recently been kicked out by MCA, and was about to re-enter the biz thru the backdoor, by courtesy of this oddball fellow called Marshall B.
As we know, Hoffy was not an actual engineer. In fact, he did not even have much of a clue what he was doing, as you can tell by listening to this particular remaster and also by reading in-between the lines of the following blurb.
Original poat from 2003, full of the usual STEVE characteristics:
I'll skip over the artwork adventures, how we found the original foil vendor and day-glow ink vendors so we could exactly duplicate the first Atco LP pressing. That took months. Also, I'll skip over PolyGram's righteous indignation when we reproduced the ATCO in the album cover. Wow, were they mad! They were also mad when they found out that our buddy at PolyGram Bill Levenson sent us "extras" to use on the disc like the edit outtake pieces of "Passing The Time" and "Anyone For Tennis".
When I first got the tapes, I was not thrilled. We got many reels including the master mixes, retrieved by Bill Inglot from Atlantic where they had sat since 1968, even though they lost rights in the 1970's. They sounded ok, but muddy and the safety reels and the overseas copies sounded shrill and thin. Someone tried to compensate for the muddiness by just jacking up the upper midrange and top end. Urrgh.
I listened to all copies of the original LP, the original ATCO, the recut ATCO, the Record Club versions, the Polydor UK versions, etc. Also the current PolyGram CD version. I sure didn't like the way ANY of them sounded.
I guess I had forgotten how much I wasn't thrilled about Tom Dowd's mixes and how there seemed to be no bass but just mud down there. Some of the mixes were the dreaded CSG and some were plain stereo. But, it was too late to turn back so I went into the studio (Location Recording Service in Burbank) and started listening to the tapes on the big ol' vintage studio monitors they had in Studio B. I guess I wanted to hear what Tom Dowd heard when he mixed everything and why he did what he did (soon to be repeated for "Hotel California" and other strange sounding master mixes for DCC's Gold Disc projects). After a week of scratching my head, I realized that my best chance to get this to sound improved over other versions was to NOT try and fix the top end and NOT try to "mask" everything (like console noise, pops and pot crackle) and just concentrate on the midrange and the bass.
I needed a LOT of extra EQ to make my ideas about how to fix the bass work, so we patched in three Sontec Paramterics in a row and I set to work. I tried a lot of stuff and finally got the low end the way I liked it; you could hear Ginger's bass drum now and less mud in Jack's six string bass.
I lived with this a month and then tried to do something (anything) to fix the "practice pad" of Ginger Baker's snare drum sound. I wasted a week on this before I decided to SCREW IT and just focus in on the vocal sound. If I could get that to sound "lifelike", I could live with the crappy snare sound. So, I discovered some of my (soon to be used all of the time) tricks to enhance the vocals so they would at least sound like real people. Tubes came in to play here for the first time on one of my projects. Kevin Gray turned me on to the use of tubes and I always try and thank him for that, even though it raises the temperature by at least 10 degrees in the room.
When I got everything fixed to my satisfaction, I scheduled a real MASTERING date and we lined up all of the gear and I gave it a shot in real time using the actual master tapes instead of the tape copy I made to save wear and tear. Too many mastering moves for one pair of hands so I drafted Kevin Gray and even my ex-girlfriend Robin to "do stuff" during the songs. Six hands working the mastering console was pretty trippy. Too bad I didn't take any photos.
At any rate, I was finally happy with everything and even though it's not a great recording to begin with, I think the DCC version sounds the best that it can. I love the album so I forgive the sonic weaknesses.
When the DCC version was issued, both Ginger Baker and Jack Bruce loved it (phew!) I was worried that I would get a lot of letters complaining about the noisy Atlantic mixing console and hissy mic pre's because I left all of the non-musical "sounds" of the recordings intact, but I was mistaken. No one complained.
I could go on, but I think you get the idea. I can still listen to the DCC version of "Wheels Of Fire" without thinking that something needs changing or fixing; in other words, with pleasure.
This project is where I first worked with vacuum tubes on a master and where I learned many of my so called "tricks" for bringing life to rather dead sounding tapes WITHOUT harming dynamic range, etc. I've used many of these techniques ever since!
After mastering this I tackled CREAM'S "Fresh Cream" but that is another adventure...
How long did this clown "work" on this project one wonders? 3 Months?, Half a year? A whole fucking lustrum, maybe? Unless you cannot be sure of your own hearing capabilities, why would any ME need months to decide on an EQ curve?
Anyway, back in 2003, there were still some sycophants happy to indulge in the antics of this loser, which prompts him to write:
Right... A mono mix is not an original mix.
Some more ass kissing follows.
I remember when we got the test discs back from Japan and Marshall was playing Deserted Cities Of The Heart in his office really loud and I was sitting across the hall in my office also listening. When the big old solo came on in the middle of the song I knew Marshall's stereo was going to explode or something (being a solid state Circuit City $200.00 special) and so I waited for it. Well, it didn't explode, but HE did, with a yell, being greatly impressed by that dynamic middle section with all of the clanging.
Marshall then played the Polydor CD version of the same song for comparison, came over to my office and without a word shook my hand. The DCC 24 Karat Gold years had begun. A great day!
Marshall exploded! And the rest is history.
Then a time lapse. 2013:
... which is met with complete silence. AL(L) must have left the building?
And again, yesterday:
This time, only one ample response, which prompts Hoof to contradict himself once more:
I actually think now that the elongated jam section was supposed to fade out at some point like the final version but I wasn't sure so I left it long with the cold ending.
Another clue that it's ALL ABOUT STEVE, and not at all about "what the World has heard and loved over the years so I don't go off on a tangent."
Then the obvious truth becomes clear once again: no one cares. The thread sinks. And ol' man Hoff is left alone with his dreams of the better days in otherwise rather uneventful life.
The End.
Once again, STeVE finds himself longing for the good old days when he had a job of sorts and projects to work on that were not Bread, Loggins & Messina of the Best of Time life. This was when he had recently been kicked out by MCA, and was about to re-enter the biz thru the backdoor, by courtesy of this oddball fellow called Marshall B.
As we know, Hoffy was not an actual engineer. In fact, he did not even have much of a clue what he was doing, as you can tell by listening to this particular remaster and also by reading in-between the lines of the following blurb.
Original poat from 2003, full of the usual STEVE characteristics:
STEVE said:
Well, it was the first DCC gold disc I worked on. I picked the title myself and there was a lot of pressure to get it to sound good. Also, it had to be a double disc and was going to cost $50.00 right out of the gate. Ouch.I'll skip over the artwork adventures, how we found the original foil vendor and day-glow ink vendors so we could exactly duplicate the first Atco LP pressing. That took months. Also, I'll skip over PolyGram's righteous indignation when we reproduced the ATCO in the album cover. Wow, were they mad! They were also mad when they found out that our buddy at PolyGram Bill Levenson sent us "extras" to use on the disc like the edit outtake pieces of "Passing The Time" and "Anyone For Tennis".
When I first got the tapes, I was not thrilled. We got many reels including the master mixes, retrieved by Bill Inglot from Atlantic where they had sat since 1968, even though they lost rights in the 1970's. They sounded ok, but muddy and the safety reels and the overseas copies sounded shrill and thin. Someone tried to compensate for the muddiness by just jacking up the upper midrange and top end. Urrgh.
I listened to all copies of the original LP, the original ATCO, the recut ATCO, the Record Club versions, the Polydor UK versions, etc. Also the current PolyGram CD version. I sure didn't like the way ANY of them sounded.
I guess I had forgotten how much I wasn't thrilled about Tom Dowd's mixes and how there seemed to be no bass but just mud down there. Some of the mixes were the dreaded CSG and some were plain stereo. But, it was too late to turn back so I went into the studio (Location Recording Service in Burbank) and started listening to the tapes on the big ol' vintage studio monitors they had in Studio B. I guess I wanted to hear what Tom Dowd heard when he mixed everything and why he did what he did (soon to be repeated for "Hotel California" and other strange sounding master mixes for DCC's Gold Disc projects). After a week of scratching my head, I realized that my best chance to get this to sound improved over other versions was to NOT try and fix the top end and NOT try to "mask" everything (like console noise, pops and pot crackle) and just concentrate on the midrange and the bass.
I needed a LOT of extra EQ to make my ideas about how to fix the bass work, so we patched in three Sontec Paramterics in a row and I set to work. I tried a lot of stuff and finally got the low end the way I liked it; you could hear Ginger's bass drum now and less mud in Jack's six string bass.
I lived with this a month and then tried to do something (anything) to fix the "practice pad" of Ginger Baker's snare drum sound. I wasted a week on this before I decided to SCREW IT and just focus in on the vocal sound. If I could get that to sound "lifelike", I could live with the crappy snare sound. So, I discovered some of my (soon to be used all of the time) tricks to enhance the vocals so they would at least sound like real people. Tubes came in to play here for the first time on one of my projects. Kevin Gray turned me on to the use of tubes and I always try and thank him for that, even though it raises the temperature by at least 10 degrees in the room.
When I got everything fixed to my satisfaction, I scheduled a real MASTERING date and we lined up all of the gear and I gave it a shot in real time using the actual master tapes instead of the tape copy I made to save wear and tear. Too many mastering moves for one pair of hands so I drafted Kevin Gray and even my ex-girlfriend Robin to "do stuff" during the songs. Six hands working the mastering console was pretty trippy. Too bad I didn't take any photos.
At any rate, I was finally happy with everything and even though it's not a great recording to begin with, I think the DCC version sounds the best that it can. I love the album so I forgive the sonic weaknesses.
When the DCC version was issued, both Ginger Baker and Jack Bruce loved it (phew!) I was worried that I would get a lot of letters complaining about the noisy Atlantic mixing console and hissy mic pre's because I left all of the non-musical "sounds" of the recordings intact, but I was mistaken. No one complained.
I could go on, but I think you get the idea. I can still listen to the DCC version of "Wheels Of Fire" without thinking that something needs changing or fixing; in other words, with pleasure.
This project is where I first worked with vacuum tubes on a master and where I learned many of my so called "tricks" for bringing life to rather dead sounding tapes WITHOUT harming dynamic range, etc. I've used many of these techniques ever since!
After mastering this I tackled CREAM'S "Fresh Cream" but that is another adventure...
How long did this clown "work" on this project one wonders? 3 Months?, Half a year? A whole fucking lustrum, maybe? Unless you cannot be sure of your own hearing capabilities, why would any ME need months to decide on an EQ curve?
Anyway, back in 2003, there were still some sycophants happy to indulge in the antics of this loser, which prompts him to write:
STEVE said:
There is usually old mastering notes in tape boxes anyway, but sometimes I need to hear what the old timers did so I can see what they were aiming for. I HATE to rewrite history (which is why I resist remixing) but I need to hear what the World has heard and loved over the years so I don't go off on a tangent.Manga Shite said:
On the Bear Family "Still In Style" CD (The Crickets) you are credited for the 3 track mix and the mastering to Bob Jones. What made you decide to do a remix here? STEVE said:
Not a remix. A first time stereo mix. Right... A mono mix is not an original mix.
Some more ass kissing follows.
STEVE said:
You're welcome!I remember when we got the test discs back from Japan and Marshall was playing Deserted Cities Of The Heart in his office really loud and I was sitting across the hall in my office also listening. When the big old solo came on in the middle of the song I knew Marshall's stereo was going to explode or something (being a solid state Circuit City $200.00 special) and so I waited for it. Well, it didn't explode, but HE did, with a yell, being greatly impressed by that dynamic middle section with all of the clanging.
Marshall then played the Polydor CD version of the same song for comparison, came over to my office and without a word shook my hand. The DCC 24 Karat Gold years had begun. A great day!
Marshall exploded! And the rest is history.
Then a time lapse. 2013:
STEVE said:
Bump for AL.... which is met with complete silence. AL(L) must have left the building?
And again, yesterday:
STEVE said:
Reopened by special request.This time, only one ample response, which prompts Hoof to contradict himself once more:
SHite said:
That Passing The Time extra section is worth the price of admission alone. Do you have any remembrances of working on that track? STEVE said:
Yeah, it was even longer, after the long jam and the reprise of the slow verses it actually went back into the fast "Passing The Time" part again and then faded out. I felt that it was too much of a good thing.I actually think now that the elongated jam section was supposed to fade out at some point like the final version but I wasn't sure so I left it long with the cold ending.
Another clue that it's ALL ABOUT STEVE, and not at all about "what the World has heard and loved over the years so I don't go off on a tangent."
Then the obvious truth becomes clear once again: no one cares. The thread sinks. And ol' man Hoff is left alone with his dreams of the better days in otherwise rather uneventful life.
The End.
