Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2018 23:21:33 GMT
Of course mastering minutiae is all bullshit. I always like it when a hysterical SHite condemns a new reissue "because this track on the old version was DR 11 and on this new one it is only DR 10." That sort of thing comes up there a lot. Morons. One of the biggest things about Hoofyville that I discovered is that reading that place was starting me to not enjoy music anymore for enjoyment, but for argument purposes. The back and forth attacks on the smallest thing, the nitpicking on things (like the vocals come in a fraction of a second later on a remix of Eleanor Rigby on the Yelloq Submarine soundtrack album, sorry Songtrack - which I was reminded in so many ways when I called it by the wrong name.) Who the fuck cares, and who the fuck has such a SHiTEy life that they need to actually take time to bitch about .7 seconds?
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Post by thisonehurts on Sept 15, 2018 23:32:26 GMT
Those .7 seconds are unlistenable for me.
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Post by mintyjackhole on Sept 16, 2018 1:46:38 GMT
SHiTe powers on/ I would never mistake a stereo version of Monk's Music for a mono version, and I really have no desire to hear a version of the album where you can barely hear the bass, because the stereo microphone placement sucks butt. Otherwise I can't imagine the sound of same versions would matter to me at all. Wait, I illegally downloaded the AF versions of Stevie Wonder's albums and they honestly did sound like muddy garbage/ SHiTe powers off.
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Felonious Spunk
Grant
Digitals downstairs to push the anal logs upstairs
Posts: 1,192
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Post by Felonious Spunk on Sept 16, 2018 19:23:13 GMT
Coincidentally, I saw a cheap Music Matters copy of an album I happen to also own an original of (Jackie McLean - Swing Swang Swinging). Not 100% sure if STeVE tweaked the EQ on this but Kevin Gray’s initials ar here. I’m not going to do a “shootout” as I have much better things to do. I will say my original RVG pressing (in mono) sounds much more immediate and engaging. The piano on the Music Maters (stereo) almost sounds like it’s in the next room and Jackie Mac is all right channel. You can tell this wasn’t supposed to be stereo, but here we are.
One other thing I can say, which is a typical bitch they have about RVG, you can hear he used compression. So what? To my ears, this sounds right and the Music Matters version sounds weird. The Music Matters sounds kind of foggy and boring.
Anyway, it’s a good album. You should hear it even if it’s a Real Media stream of an 8-track. Now back to your regularly scheduled SC.
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Post by mintyjackhole on Sept 16, 2018 23:00:13 GMT
Sorry for the serious response but I love that Jackie Mac album. It's always cool to hear Jimmy Garrison outside the context of Trane.
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Felonious Spunk
Grant
Digitals downstairs to push the anal logs upstairs
Posts: 1,192
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Post by Felonious Spunk on Sept 16, 2018 23:18:46 GMT
Sorry for the serious response but I love that Jackie Mac album. It's always cool to hear Jimmy Garrison outside the context of Trane. Absolutely. I’m a big Jackie fan and it’s such a great band on this album. I don’t know if Jimmy and Art Taylor played on other albums but they’re a hell of a rhythm section here. And Walter Bishop Jr. is awesome. Yeah, sorry so serious but this is a real good one.
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Post by mintyjackhole on Sept 17, 2018 0:48:43 GMT
Totally. The RVGs are stereo. I've been revisiting some Blue Notes since this thread began. It had been awhile.
To my mind the fetishized on of Blue Note amongst a certain type of Boomer jazz fan skeeves me out more than the Beatards or even the Monkees Master Men. The kind of reactionary guys who still take rock as an affront, and feel they are immuned to racism because they listen to music by black men. Never mind that most of the musicians they worship are safe because they are mostly dead. Blue Note fans find the whole Blue Note esthetic safe in comparison to the scary political and spiritual implications of Trane and his disciples took the music, not to mention Coleman, Taylor and to a large degree Miles. (And I know Ornette and Cecil Taylor recorded for Blue Note, but that isn't the stuff that gets fetishized.)
And it all comes down to anything that deviates from those early wide stereo "holy Grail" are a personal affront to their sensibilities.
Not saying all jazz boards are like that, but there is a lot of that shit on jazz boards.
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Post by aggressivebeta on Sept 17, 2018 3:32:07 GMT
Most recording studios abandoned their RCA ribbon mics for the new German mics as soon as they could, by 1953 or so. Brighter sounding to them in their dingy studio monitors is the most likely reason. I think the Neumann microphones that came over here are the cause of this new (to the music industry) overload distortion. When they were plugged into the old American microphone preamps that couldn't handle their output the music just got a buzz cut, distortionland, fuzzville, etc. I don't think the engineers of the day could hear it on their monitors, I think they liked that the overload distortion acted like a limiter and kept the sound levels from getting too loud. Distortion be dammed. Trumpets were always hard to record, this seemed a Godsend to the engineers of the day I'm bettin'. Blue Notes especially suffer from this. Drives me bonkers, because I know that if Rudy Van Gelder had just put an RCA ribbon mic back in the system and moved his horn player back about 1 foot, all would have been well. I Nothing that 1-5 layers of tube compression + distortion plus massive sample clipping sourced from a DAT made from a 2nd gen tape copy couldn’t fix
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Post by mintyjackhole on Sept 17, 2018 4:13:34 GMT
I completely agree. I certainly don't fetishize anything about Blue Note. Most of the catalog is middling at best, and the vaunted graphic style is actually pretty much pure kitsch: some lily-white Eisenhower-era collegian's notion of "sophistication." In other words, they knew exactly how and to whom to market their wares. Blue Note sure as hell wasn't going to record Albert Ayler, Noah Howard or even Sun Ra. And of course they didn't. I certainly wouldn't think you did fetishize Blue Note, and for all I said, I've got my fair share of Lee Morgan albums. But kitsch is the word I've been looking for. I mean I've got no problem with listening to Art Blakey, say, as long as there is an understanding that he was part of a continuum that includes Ayler etc... But stopping at Blue Trane is almost a form of kitsch in itself. Especially considering that the world has moved on from Trane and Ayler and that their revolutionary impulse is mostly found elsewhere, and far outside if jazz these days.
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Post by hoffa_nagila on Sept 17, 2018 10:22:49 GMT
I actually find it difficult to take John Coltrane seriously when I hear it these days. The solemn "spirituality" really grates. Just imagine how unbearable his stuff would've been had he lived into the 70s. I have no doubt it would've been as laughably dumb as Pharoah Sanders' hippie navel-gazing, complete with wankers like Carlos Santana on board. For that matter, Ayler was sounding as childishly stupid as Pharoah Sanders there at the end, what with trash like New Grass, etc. This is one of the reasons Miles Davis' music still holds up: Miles never fell for that 60s claptrap bullshit for one single minute of his life. If you think about it, it is kind of astonishing just how many of these major jazz figures wholeheartedly immersed themselves into the most idiotic "spiritual" bullshit imaginable by the 1970s: Scientology, Indian guru charlatans, etc.Same reason a lot of celebrities and wealthy figures do so: they are no longer chasing fame and wealth, are insulated professionally and personally, and have grown bored.
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Post by mintyjackhole on Sept 17, 2018 10:30:44 GMT
To me Coltrane is the only great artist I can think of whose music displays no sense of humor whatsoever. All the more baffling considering he could play "My Favorite Things" for an hour. Many lesser talents went down the same road, unsurprisingly. The thing that keeps much of Coltrane's music fresh to me was actually a quote from Mike Watt. It was something along the lines of him and D. Boon hearing A Love Supreme and they thought it was punk. Strip away all the religious grandiosity and the music still peels paint off the walls. Coltrane probably would have made his New Grass, but he didn't. As for Ayler, no amount of late career getting lost in the weeds can take away New York Eye and Ear Control.
Besides, the history of music is often the story of the cutting edge eventually becoming petting zoo. It happened to Miles' music eventually. In it's way the '70s cosmic slick music that grew out of Coltrane's disciples is as corny as those old Blue Note records from a decade earlier. In the same way that, at least for me, no amount of tired "Sidewinder" retreads can take away Lee Morgan's solo on the Jazz Messengers version of Night In Tunisia.
I'm going on too long here, but I get that Coltrane's music can be a bore, and while I happily call him a great artist, I certainly don't buy into the cult of Trane. Going back to the Blue Note Boomers, it says something about them that they can't handle Coltrane, or electric Miles, more than it does of the profundity of Coltrane etc's music. It's just that jazz, lumps and all, is really my cup of tea.
Elsewhere in Hoofyland, some dimwit started a thread asking if any album got more of a critical reappraisal than RAM. The correct answer to that question is clearly On The Corner.
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Post by hugofuguzev on Sept 17, 2018 10:32:22 GMT
I actually find it difficult to take John Coltrane seriously when I hear it these days. The solemn "spirituality" really grates. Just imagine how unbearable his stuff would've been had he lived into the 70s. I have no doubt it would've been as laughably dumb as Pharoah Sanders' hippie navel-gazing, complete with wankers like Carlos Santana on board. For that matter, Ayler was sounding as childishly stupid as Pharoah Sanders there at the end, what with trash like New Grass, etc. This is one of the reasons Miles Davis' music still holds up: Miles never fell for that 60s claptrap bullshit for one single minute of his life. If you think about it, it is kind of astonishing just how many of these major jazz figures wholeheartedly immersed themselves into the most idiotic "spiritual" bullshit imaginable by the 1970s: Scientology, Indian guru charlatans, etc.Same reason a lot of celebrities and wealthy figures do so: they are no longer chasing fame and wealth, are insulated professionally and personally, and have grown bored. And the drugs aren't getting them high enough anymore, can't forget about that one...
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Post by thisonehurts on Sept 17, 2018 10:42:40 GMT
Spiritual jazz? Moog synthesizers and adopting Swahili names? I love that stuff. Bring it fucking on.
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bradman
Better than Steve
Posts: 5,116
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Post by bradman on Sept 17, 2018 12:25:00 GMT
Elsewhere in Hoofyland, some dimwit started a thread asking if any album got more of a critical reappraisal than RAM. The correct answer to that question is clearly On The Corner. This so much. I found a used copy of the OTC box in perfect shape for a crazy low price. Perfect except no disc 1. If I was even remotely competent I would d/l a FLAC and burn it to disc, but I am clownshoes.
Do the adherents of St. John conveniently ignore his late psalms or do they embrace Om and Interstellar Space? I think Ascension is probably the cutoff for the traditionalists and casual listeners.
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bradman
Better than Steve
Posts: 5,116
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Post by bradman on Sept 17, 2018 12:31:58 GMT
How pervasive was Scientology in that realm?
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