|
Post by sₚⲁᵣₖydₒg on Jul 6, 2019 20:25:36 GMT
Even the Beatles used a glitchy rip of the Penny Lane trumpet single apparently taken from the web. This never made much sense to me.
|
|
|
Post by hoffa_nagila on Jul 6, 2019 20:39:46 GMT
Even the Beatles used a glitchy rip of the Penny Lane trumpet single apparently taken from the web. This never made much sense to me. Especially considering the generally high quality standards.
Oh, btw, that Doors Singles comp that used the wrong vintage mix of Wishful Sinful? Well now rather than just emailing the correct file, they've made it available publicly.
|
|
Felonious Spunk
Grant
Digitals downstairs to push the anal logs upstairs
Posts: 1,192
|
Post by Felonious Spunk on Jul 6, 2019 20:40:22 GMT
I’m pretty sure some Nirvana stuff was mp3 sourced. The Penny Lane thing was really baffling as finding a better quality source shouldn’t have been hard at all.
|
|
|
Post by sₚⲁᵣₖydₒg on Jul 6, 2019 21:06:52 GMT
Here's my Flac-ensteined version:
Do you folks have a lot of trouble pasting links here?
|
|
Flat Transfer
Terry Kath
Providing DR numbers for the EK 34188, DIDP 20006
Posts: 484
|
Post by Flat Transfer on Jul 6, 2019 22:48:01 GMT
Just badly remixed. The boot versions are mixes from the 80s, intended for Opel.
|
|
|
Post by hoffa_nagila on Jul 7, 2019 1:03:43 GMT
Just badly remixed. The boot versions are mixes from the 80s, intended for Opel. The BBC stuff is shit though. Far better sources have been available for at least a year before that set came out (maybe longer, but definitely long enough that they could have used them.) And the mastering on that entire box is pretty poor.
|
|
|
Post by krabapple on Jul 7, 2019 3:17:23 GMT
But Zax seemed to be saying that the entire reissue was sourced from mp3s
|
|
Flat Transfer
Terry Kath
Providing DR numbers for the EK 34188, DIDP 20006
Posts: 484
|
Post by Flat Transfer on Jul 7, 2019 9:54:42 GMT
The BBC stuff is shit though. Far better sources have been available for at least a year before that set came out (maybe longer, but definitely long enough that they could have used them.) And the mastering on that entire box is pretty poor.
Some of it, but I think the June '68 session never sounded better.
|
|
|
Post by hoffa_nagila on Jul 7, 2019 14:36:57 GMT
The BBC stuff is shit though. Far better sources have been available for at least a year before that set came out (maybe longer, but definitely long enough that they could have used them.) And the mastering on that entire box is pretty poor.
Some of it, but I think the June '68 session never sounded better.
Fair point. I was thinking more the Syd era stuff and the 1971 session that for some reason they chose a mono source for. But the mastering on many tracks is less than stellar. I believe even the Matilda Mother 2010 mix sounds different and worse than when it was first released in 2010 (which means the other outtakes mixed in 2010 could have sounded better). And then whatever happened with the Pompeii disc that wasn't even supposed to be included.
|
|
Flat Transfer
Terry Kath
Providing DR numbers for the EK 34188, DIDP 20006
Posts: 484
|
Post by Flat Transfer on Jul 7, 2019 14:54:07 GMT
And then whatever happened with the Pompeii disc that wasn't even supposed to be included.
Not even STeVE could have fucked it up that badly. I'm not sure, but to me it sounds like they tried that stereo extraction thing on that.
|
|
|
Post by FabGear Prophylactic on Jul 9, 2019 1:30:38 GMT
I know I'm interrupting but how the fuck does this sort of catastrophe just... happen? How does the music biz REALLY work?
Rekkid companies supposedly hold zealously to their masters --won't let that little bitch Taylor Swiff have hers for example-- because those precious tapes are their property. Won't re-release them in many cases when there is a seeming demand for them (even though actuarials would point out that there is a window closing here). Re-release them too often in others (time for another Beach Boys or Who best of, anyone?).
However, they might not bother to store them safely 'cause air conditioning and fire sprinklers cost money. They might not catalogue all those stupid tapes properly, cause liberries cost money too, so tapes get lost. And there's probably an employee or two who exploit the sloppiness to safeguard some tapes at personal expense. (I say this only for satiric purposes, allegedly).
But somehow, sometimes studios have them (wasn't it Olympic Studios in Ye Merry-Olde England-towne who summarily threw away an untold number of valuable mastertapes? How were the tapes left and forgotten there if the labels own them?)
And then there are probably artists who wisely steal/appropriate their life's-work, having seen all these sorts of horror stories before. Either using the time-honoured Hoofy-method of stuffing them under their shirt-tails (again, allegedly...), or the Phil Spector way (at gunpoint). And they ain't talkin'.
And according to well-informed obsessives, I guess the UK parent-label might have accidently sent a mastertape (or something pretty close, generationally-speaking) to its Australian subsidiary for pressings for the south-east Asian market, when they were just supposed to send a cutting master, blah-blah-blah (I don't pretend to understand the terminology, I'm just parroting.)
And all of this uncertainty surely must be multiplied a million-fold by the constant churning of IP-monetizing <gack> mergers and acquisitions that probably led to the mislabelling and errant shipping of millions of tapes that are simultaneously increasingly valuable, tediously annoying and yet worthless, priceless garbage.
I guess... we've no idea what's actually left. How could we ever expect to know how many dumpster-fires, uh, I mean archive-fires have happened, what was lost and by who? And then somebody will stumble across a cache of tapes that were set aside either by design or disinterest.
The only people who surely won't have anything in their possession are the people the lawyers and accountants despise more than moral accountability itself: the artists. Unless they're in the tippy-tippy-top eschelon of the poppermost. Maybe.
Sorry for ranting. It's just that, if you love music, this is EXACTLY the kind of topic that we should be discussing, with actual artists and industry-insiders chiming in, on a music forum that wasn't destroyed by addled, house-bound misogynists. Fuck that namby-pamby thinking, eh?
|
|
|
Post by mintyjackhole on Jul 9, 2019 3:51:25 GMT
Around ten years ago there was a sixties era Steve Lacy trio date recorded by Atlantic. Mosaic wanted to put it out. Wanted to pay them for it. And Universal said there was not enough interest for them to license the date to Mosaic. Now we know what really happened. Assholes!
|
|
|
Post by FabGear Prophylactic on Jul 9, 2019 4:13:55 GMT
Here's my Flac-ensteined version: Thanks for that. Btw I just want to point out that your tune only has a DR of 8 according to my careful calculations. I don't know why you squashed it so brutally; do you think you're MOFI or somethin'. Without the breath of life it just has no minty freshness. I call it a sonic abortion. One star, bucko. Well, after the outrage, I give it four stars. But you should also buy a Japanese pressing of Past Masters masturd from a digital source. With or without obi.
|
|
|
Post by FabGear Prophylactic on Jul 9, 2019 5:06:44 GMT
Let us also not make the mistake of reflexively romanticizing earlier eras Oh fuck yes, you're absolutely right. Sorry if I seemed to be doing so. Entertainment producers have been despising entertainers since early Greece. So, yeah they've been killing their golden geese as soon as they could. Being able to record a performance --on film, rekkid, etc-- must've seemed a god-send. You could now kill the artist, not just metaphorically, and still preserve the art. And they did and continue to do. [Cue Neil Diamond nervously pointing at Bert Berns.] I genuinely think the Mob runs its self, internally, much more morally than it ran/runs the rekkid industy. If I had been more succinct I would have been clearer in my amazement at the number of ways mastertapes have evidently been disappearing. Or not. Or somethin'. And maybe will therefore start turning up in a generation or so. I still don't understand how Olympic Studios had masters, if they are really so zealously guarded by labels. Just for example. And I'm not even sure if it's bad that artists haven't been able to hold the tapes themselves because a lot of them might have been piss-poor archivists. (I think this is the distasteful 'Elgin Marbles' argument -- that analogously the rekkid labels were like the British Museum.) The sad example of Ruth Brown's lousy treatment at the hands of Atlantic always comes to mind when I think of the plight of artists. I remember seeing a documentary on Ray Charles and his genius move in getting out from under Atlantic's thumb. And the fucking gall of Ertegun and (I think) Wexler in gently, tearily denouncing Charles' ingratitude at bailing for big bucks and artistic control at ABC, posing as if they were thoughtfully lamenting the end of an artistic relationship. Because all their decisions were never tainted by crass commercialism, I guess. I had always assumed Charles' move included control of masters... insert Hoffman joke here .
[Fun fact: I first came across Our Host as the biggest-font name on the back of a grey-market copy of Modern Sounds in Country and Western Music. I hate to admit that it sounded pretty good but on the other hand is that really because of his intervention in otherwise well-recorded music?] As for the copyright extension nonsense -- isn't that because of the immense political savvy of Disney and it's divine *need* to hold on to Mickey Mouse? And all the other exploiters get to scurry along under Disney's wholesome cover? Don't patents for tangible inventions have a much shorter life? If we're really moving to an intangible world, aren't lengthy copyrights a toxic obstacle to innovation?
|
|
Felonious Spunk
Grant
Digitals downstairs to push the anal logs upstairs
Posts: 1,192
|
Post by Felonious Spunk on Jul 9, 2019 10:55:51 GMT
Rekkid companies supposedly hold zealously to their masters ... There's where you've got it wrong. They don't really care about the masters. It's all about the copyrights. The masters are just the raw materials that get them to copyrights. RCA bulldozed it's Camden storage in the early 60s. (Goodbye Elvis's Sun masters.) ABC tossed tons of stuff in the 70s rather than pay storage costs (So long Coltrane sessions.) Atlantic had a fire in the 70s (See ya Ray Charles.) It's been known that tapes get recycled, left at studios, walk out the back door (STeVE!), etc. for a long time. As much as some audiofools want to bitch about ceedeez and digital, I think the mania to reissue during that time probably saved a lot of stuff, or at least delayed the execution. Here's a Billboard article from 1997 that lays it out. That was 20 years ago and I have no reason to believe much has changed. www.biwa.ne.jp/~presley/elnews-VaultLosses.htmEDIT: just saw COLA's poat. Yeah...that too.
|
|