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Post by chaz on Jul 10, 2019 1:13:20 GMT
Me no want to enter nerdy “rawk crit” debate either, but Lester Bangs is always the correct answer. And most times it has nothing to do with rock & roll.
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Post by FabGear Prophylactic on Jul 10, 2019 1:14:08 GMT
To my probable discredit I've read and enjoyed just about all of them. Including the ones I disagree with most (not sure who that would be, my memory fails) so long as the writer loves the music more than him/herself. Which is ultimately just a judgment thing on my part anyway i suppose. I still have all my Creem magazines from high school, and my Trouser Press and NY Rocker collection from university daze. So I wave my nerd flag high!
I have had lots of friends who were at least as passionate about music as I am, and who've thought my taste in music sucked. (As many of you will if i make the mistake of expressing an opinion.) Never phased me or them. Which is why the "Let's Cook Up a Phony Argument and Get All Fake-Emotional Yet Again" approach of the Hoofers repels me so profoundly.
P.S. Isn't Meltzer the one who called Michel Pagliaro the Real Best Ultimate Non-Anglophone Rocker in the world? If so, yay Meltzer!
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Post by essayceedee on Jul 10, 2019 1:15:23 GMT
Holy shit, rock criticism. It meant the world to me when I was young and earnest and SERIOUS about music MAAAAAN. Now just skimming an article or review on Pitchfork puts me in a fucking coma.
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Post by bigmuff on Jul 10, 2019 1:43:13 GMT
This is why I said "writer" before. The whole idea of a "rock critic" is sort of a loser to start with. The best things I ever read to do with music was by great writers, who just happened to be talking about music. My list would be people like Bangs and DiMartino (the stuff he managed to foist upon the mainstream US public in Creem during the mid-80s was nothing short of astounding) in the US, and for the UK, David Cavanagh (who I referenced in the Triffids thing in the other thread), and the also late and great Tom Hibbert (who was the undisputed master of the vicious and righteous takedown). Hibbert also did lots of other personality types besides music, and in a similar vein, Chris Heath is currently the only person I can think of who, if I see his name, I'll read it, no matter what or who the subject.
And for me, that's the trick. It can be something or somebody I have zero interest in, but if the person can convince me what it means to them - even if only for that particular moment - then that's a winner. And on the flipside - which encompasses just about everything out there in today's world (that eternal wank site known as "The Quietus" is the particular bee in my bonnet in this realm), you can be writing about somebody who's one my favorite artists in the world, but if you're an insufferable drip who clearly doesn't actually know anything other than what you looked up on Wikipedia before you got the assignment.....get the hell off of my lawn.
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Post by mintyjackhole on Jul 10, 2019 2:52:50 GMT
Ok, I'll stop too, but I don't want to miss the anti-Quietus love. That site is very bad.
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Post by bigmuff on Jul 10, 2019 3:05:09 GMT
Well, even if we seem to disagree on the Meltzer/Bangs issue (to me, RM is a poor man's version of LB, but I do understand where for some it might be the other way around - even if it's not, heehee) - it's nice to see we can at least all get behind The Quietus being beneath contempt.
And for what it's worth, I should stress I don't HATE Meltzer. (As stated previously, I would save that for, and hurl that at, Christgau in a most vociferous fashion.) We all got our things. By all means though, feel free to PM me some Doran shit. I'm sure that would amuse me greatly.
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Post by bigmuff on Jul 10, 2019 5:07:01 GMT
Diedrichsen's name I think I've heard mentioned in the past. McCullough was decent, of that era. Mick Farren's essays he did for Trouser Press I recall being pretty good, though it's been eons since I've seen them now.
Should we all pile on to the evergreen uber-twat Paul Morley? Probably not. Worth about as much effort as Doran. Actually, when I see him in interviews these days he doesn't quite piss me off like he used to. But that's a long, long, long ladder to climb up, so...
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Post by bigmuff on Jul 10, 2019 5:36:34 GMT
We Should Be So Morley. The Loco-Morley. Better The Morley We Know. What Kind Of Fool (Heard All Morley's Shit Before).
I hope he didn't leave any of those out.
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Post by FabGear Prophylactic on Jul 11, 2019 3:07:55 GMT
Yeah, what's with this Kylie Minogue thing (yeah I know she's gorgeous but Morley's gone way beyond mere sexual objectification here)? I had almost forgotten his old ZTT jaw-droppers, and was beginning to think more-or-less kindly of him as a doddering old uncle on a park bench babbling nostalgically about something or other. But then I heard a BBC Radio doc wherein he rhapsodizes at length (!) about Minogue's "I Can't Get You Out of My Head" (I think it's called) as some sort of most best ultimate life-affirming orgasmic epiphany.
I can't... (Uhh, it's a decent poptune among tens of thousands of others.) Mountain; meet molehill.
(Coincidentally I only just today stumbled across an article on Cavanagh's passing. I think I saw stuff he wrote for Sounds back in the day, no? (I know I should have search engined that, sorry.) I seem to remember a much more thoughtful than average writer, if my memory doesn't fail. In any case, I send my sympathies.}
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Post by mintyjackhole on Jul 11, 2019 6:49:16 GMT
It may not get nerdier than a Rock Critic fight. I've been thinking about this one a lot, and having an online forum principally dedicated to mocking the excesses of another online forum is nerdier than a Rock Critic fight.
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Post by bigmuff on Jul 11, 2019 12:42:13 GMT
It may not get nerdier than a Rock Critic fight. I've been thinking about this one a lot, and having an online forum principally dedicated to mocking the excesses of another online forum is nerdier than a Rock Critic fight. Yes, but you're not supposed to actually say that out loud. Party pooper.
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Post by mintyjackhole on Jul 11, 2019 14:34:25 GMT
I've been thinking about this one a lot, and having an online forum principally dedicated to mocking the excesses of another online forum is nerdier than a Rock Critic fight. Yes, but you're not supposed to actually say that out loud. Party pooper. Fair play, bigmuff, fair play. Now to get truly embarrassing: I'm glad my Meltzer comment got under your skin enough that you joined. <annoyingcheersemoji>
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Post by bigmuff on Jul 11, 2019 17:06:22 GMT
Heh heh. That wasn't actually the trigger. I forget what was now. And I'd been meaning to join in here for a while, just never got around to it. But for you, my minty one, if you want to believe it was you - then it was you. (Now imagine all that being said in a Jeatleboe voice, complete with Sopranos wannabe accent.)
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Post by krabapple on Jul 12, 2019 4:15:56 GMT
fuck rock critics, and fuck you.
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Post by essayceedee on Jul 12, 2019 14:32:51 GMT
Finally a voice of reason.
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