AKA
Terry Kath
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Post by AKA on Nov 15, 2019 22:28:55 GMT
That's in reference to the crows, and it's an improvement from the original plan which was to excise those shots. Now they need to copy the path taken with the Breakfast At Tiffany's blu-ray release, and release Song Of The South with a featurette discussing the objectionable depictions in that film. I prefer the disclaimer and to leave the contents of the films alone. If someone doesn’t want to see those scenes, no one is forcing them to. Leave it alone for those who appreciate the films as art. That's in reference to the crows, and it's an improvement from the original plan which was to excise those shots. Now they need to copy the path taken with the Breakfast At Tiffany's blu-ray release, and release Song Of The South with a featurette discussing the objectionable depictions in that film. I agree with you that it is much better than (typically quiet) censorship, but why does it need any discussion at all? "Cultural depictions" have become "obsolete" (pathetic wording btw) throughout the ages, without the audiences of the times losing their minds over it. What's different about the modern mentality that people can't handle it, I wonder, and need their hands held? The kids can handle it and don't care... it's for their woke parents. I agree with you that it is much better than (typically quiet) censorship, but why does it need any discussion at all? "Cultural depictions" have become "obsolete" (pathetic wording btw) throughout the ages, without the audiences of the times losing their minds over it. What's different about the modern mentality that people can't handle it, I wonder, and need their hands held? That’s why I can’t abide “political correctness”, I see it as a more insidious form of censorship, especially regarding literature and art. You learn from history and art, you don’t sweep it under the rug or lock it away just because you find a reason not to like it. :mad: Too bad they still removed that joke blooper from the end of Toy Story 2. I agree with you that it is much better than (typically quiet) censorship, but why does it need any discussion at all? "Cultural depictions" have become "obsolete" (pathetic wording btw) throughout the ages, without the audiences of the times losing their minds over it. What's different about the modern mentality that people can't handle it, I wonder, and need their hands held? "Cultural depictions" may have become obsolete "throughout the ages", but that's an utterly irrelevant generalization. We are talking about a streaming service geared towards children, that includes content not from "ages" ago, but from the last seventy years or so, some of which is rightly considered racist. *You* seem to be the one "losing your mind" over a bit of text that precedes an old film in one specific 2019 context. It bothers you so much, that you have to vent about it here. Yet the idea of buck toothed "Asian" cats looking right out of WWII propaganda, singing in a poorly stereotyped accent and acting shifty and untrustworthy, is something everyone else is, in your estimation, supposed to just ignore. Do you need *your* hand held, because of a disclaimer before a sixty-five year old cartoon upsets you so, that people just can't "handle" racist stereotypes? Why is the idea of people being sensitive to racist caricatures and depictions so unthinkable to you, yet some of you are so sensitive to the idea of "political correctness" that is sounds like you're headed towards cardiac arrest over it? I wonder if they will show GOOD MOVIES like Song of the south and The Sound of Music  I wonder if they will show GOOD MOVIES like Song of the south and The Sound of Music Sound of Music is on Disney+. Would be nice if they gave folks the choice to see Song of The South. Those who don’t want to see it don’t have to. I'm trying to commit myself to re-watch "Spider-man and His Amazing Friends". Haven't seen these since I was a kid. Does Disney own the 60's "Spider-man" cartoons? I have the DVD set but it would be nice if those and the other 60's Marvel cartoons got added in the future. "Doc Bruce Banner... belted by gamma rays...." Disney+ is missing one episode of Spidey + Amazing Friends, the one that was taken out of syndication years ago. It's the one with Adolf Hitler and Nazi imagery in it. Disney+ is missing one episode of Spidey + Amazing Friends, the one that was taken out of syndication years ago. It's the one with Adolf Hitler and Nazi imagery in it. “The Quest of the Red Skull”, S01E13  “The Quest of the Red Skull”, S01E13 Yup, Disney would never allow that now Yup, Disney would never allow that now Which is strange, because of all the Nazis in The Sound Of Music. Which is strange, because of all the Nazis in The Sound Of Music. I doubt at anyone at Disney cared much; Captain America is essentially fighting Nazis his whole first MCU movie. And I'm sure the Nazi-heavy Indiana Jones movies will also be available at some point there. I think the episode was removed from syndication many years ago when Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends was airing on FOX Kids or something similar. It's a show that is approved for 7 year olds, it's possible at the time that the swastikas and real world/historical aspects of WWII seemed a little heavy for that audience, as the show generally is not terribly serious. I wonder if whatever deals were made to remove years ago have just remained with the property in terms of its availability. Certain rights must be tied up in some way because there was never an official U.S. DVD release of the series. Yup, Disney would never allow that now Disney prefers the absurd warm and cuddly JoJo Rabbit version for the kiddies. Clearly you have not seen this film. My post was partly satire. When I was a child I was shown actual footage of death camps where the dead (exterminated) bodies were bulldozed into ditches by the Nazis. I’m guessing they don’t teach that today, amongst other things like actual history. Historical fiction is taught. I don’t like revisionism. Can’t upset anyones feelings now can we - hence even the likes of Dave Chappelle can’t make jokes without being attacked. Every automaton needs a safe space. Where are the episodes of Drugs Inc. and Underworld Inc. that aired on National Geographic Channel? Not sure who is worse at censoring things, Diznee or China? Wait that’s an obvious answer.  My post was partly satire. When I was a child I was shown actual footage of death camps where the dead (exterminated) bodies were bulldozed into ditches by the Nazis. I’m guessing they don’t teach that today, amongst other things like actual history. Historical fiction is taught. I don’t like revisionism. Can’t upset anyones feelings now can we - hence even the likes of Dave Chappelle can’t make jokes without being attacked. Every automaton needs a safe space. (I know it’s not Chappelle, but I think it makes the same point.)  My post was partly satire. When I was a child I was shown actual footage of death camps where the dead (exterminated) bodies were bulldozed into ditches by the Nazis. I’m guessing they don’t teach that today, amongst other things like actual history. Historical fiction is taught. I don’t like revisionism. Can’t upset anyones feelings now can we - hence even the likes of Dave Chappelle can’t make jokes without being attacked. Every automaton needs a safe space. Utter ****e. Folks, I think we've made our points. For the sake of peace, let's move forward and keep the conversation focused on Disney+. |
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Felonious Spunk
Grant
Digitals downstairs to push the anal logs upstairs
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Post by Felonious Spunk on Nov 16, 2019 1:15:22 GMT
I saw a headline about this in passing and figured there would be 47 pages of valuable SHite insight coming shortly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2019 2:26:30 GMT
I'm sorry.. "trigger warnings" accompanying movies is just an idiotic concept. If someone isn't mature enough to understand that a film was made in a different time with different sensibilities then maybe they should just stick with Bob Ross videos.
And for anyone that disagrees with me...there are things you do today and films you like that will someday make a future generation cringe. Human beings aren't fully formed, they are evolving – constantly.
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Post by hoffa_nagila on Nov 16, 2019 3:48:36 GMT
I'm sorry.. "trigger warnings" accompanying movies is just an idiotic concept. If someone isn't mature enough to understand that a film was made in a different time with different sensibilities then maybe they should just stick with Bob Ross videos. And for anyone that disagrees with me...there are things you do today and films you like that will someday make a future generation cringe. Human beings aren't fully formed, they are evolving – constantly. If you think they are "trigger warnings" then you missed the point. They are simply reminders that the content has historical context to it. It's gonna be pretty damn hard to learn from the mistakes of the past if first we don't label them as mistakes. "Here's something we made. We recognize now that such content is offensive and knowing what we know now, we wouldn't do it again. But enjoy it for what it is." |
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AKA
Terry Kath
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Post by AKA on Nov 16, 2019 20:21:03 GMT
I'm sorry.. "trigger warnings" accompanying movies is just an idiotic concept. If someone isn't mature enough to understand that a film was made in a different time with different sensibilities then maybe they should just stick with Bob Ross videos. And for anyone that disagrees with me...there are things you do today and films you like that will someday make a future generation cringe. Human beings aren't fully formed, they are evolving – constantly. If you think they are "trigger warnings" then you missed the point. They are simply reminders that the content has historical context to it. It's gonna be pretty damn hard to learn from the mistakes of the past if first we don't label them as mistakes. "Here's something we made. We recognize now that such content is offensive and knowing what we know now, we wouldn't do it again. But enjoy it for what it is." Exactly. The advisories are disclaimers and content warnings for parents. They’re not “trigger warnings.” |
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Post by My Avatar Is A Hot Babe on Nov 19, 2019 19:07:55 GMT
What about something like My Cousin Vinny ? I’m Italian and I find that film to feature vile stereotypes of Italians. It’s showed on cable quite frequently. Should it be banned ? I personally wouldn’t ban it. Now Disney essentially curates what’s on Disney+. I’m fine with them not including a movie like Song of the South on Disney+, although a DVD/Blu release should be available. Should The Birth of a Nation (I thought it terrible) or Triumph of the Will (never saw it) be banned ? However, the standards are inconsistent (not just for Disney) - Scorsese (an Italian no less) and Spike Lee have consistently portrayed Italians in a negative light. Their films are almost ubiquitous on cable. Green Book was a decent film, but I found the depiction of the Italian guy offensive. I personally don’t know anyone that acts like these stereotypes, yet this is all the viewing public gets of “Italians” - none of the music, art, food, wine, fashion, literature, Rennaisance, etc. The studios (Hollywood and television) continue this calculated bigotry and the viewing public and awards voters seem to eat it up. This phenomena isn’t commonplace in actual Italian films, which is quite telling. If we’re going to take this to its logical conclusion everything is going to be banned or censored. Welcome to the People’s Republic of the USA. I emailed them and nicely asked if SONG OF THE SOUTH would be available.... I said it was well done and i would pay $10 a month to see good movies like that.. Not surprisingly they didnt reply........... (I didnt think they would) I accidentally signed up for Disney+ yesterday without subscribing and now the account isn't cancelled. |
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Post by cockledge on Nov 19, 2019 20:01:22 GMT
They're rock stupid.
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Felonious Spunk
Grant
Digitals downstairs to push the anal logs upstairs
Posts: 1,192
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Post by Felonious Spunk on Nov 19, 2019 21:36:02 GMT
I wish Disney would put Song of the South out there so people who haven’t seen it can see that yes it is as racist as critics say and it’s also stone boring, so the claim that it’s some “great” movie just doesn’t hold up. I almost feel the damn thing has gained some importance it doesn’t deserve by being “in the vault”, which is just a cynical thing anyway.
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Post by sₚⲁᵣₖydₒg on Nov 19, 2019 22:09:11 GMT
Get your "OK Boomer" ready to fire at me. I do have mixed feelings about this movie. I'm also probably 40 years older than a lot of you people.
Song of the South apparently was probably just more misguided than outright racist. I've heard that Uncle Walt loved these tales and tried for years to find the right way to film them. I'm pretty ambivalent about SotS; it has that one great classic song and some other good ones, and some absolutely great animated special effects sequences and characters. But the scenes where the "not-Slaves" and their "pickanninies" are praying and singing and crying near Massa Johnny's bedside for de Lawd to save his little white ass are pretty hard to take. Also when Johnny’s mother gives poor Remus a raft of shit. They certainly gloss over the fact that the Blacks were sharecroppers, not slaves. And then there's Tar Baby... 
I figured they were slaves when I saw this in the theater as a kid. I have it on LaserDisc and watched it once. I also have an MP4 file of SotS somewhere.
Hopefully James Baskett was well paid for this since he is now primarily remembered as a symbol of whitey's stereotyping of African-Americans.
I guess the point some of the less crapulant SHites are trying to make is how hypocritical Disney is, disowning this film yet using songs and characters from it in attractions all over the world.
"We get 17 minutes of excruciatingly slow filler material for every eight or ten minutes of animation. The film literally lurches between animated segments in a set pattern of 17 live-action minutes of the poorly-told Johnny story followed by eight minutes of fun with Br’ers Rabbit, Fox, and Bear. The film is 94 minutes; there are only 25 minutes of animation." -- F This Movie
Also - WTF? MikaelaArsenault said:
I accidentally signed up for Disney+ yesterday without subscribing and now the account isn't cancelled.  |
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daved
Better than Steve
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Post by daved on Nov 19, 2019 22:13:34 GMT
How does one accidentally sign up? Did she accidentally pull out her credit card and accidentally enter all the info?
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bradman
Better than Steve
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Post by bradman on Nov 20, 2019 0:24:17 GMT
The free seven day trial converts to a paid subscription. You have to enter the info for the trial. She, and a lot of other idiots, are starting to realize that today, seven days after launch.
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AKA
Terry Kath
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Post by AKA on Nov 20, 2019 5:17:24 GMT
Karina Longworth's You Must Remember This podcast is currently running an excellent and, as always, well researched series on Song of the South and its inescapably racist message (then and now):
www.youmustrememberthispodcast.com/episodesI’ve been meaning to check that out. Thanks for the reminder. |
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Felonious Spunk
Grant
Digitals downstairs to push the anal logs upstairs
Posts: 1,192
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Post by Felonious Spunk on Nov 20, 2019 13:08:35 GMT
I have no idea why Song of the South is such a hot topic everywhere all of a sudden, but it does seem to come up with regularity at least once per decade. Just want to say that, yes, it is racist. It is not "misguided," it is straight up fucking racist. Disney knew it at the time; he faced a lot of criticism over that while it was still in production. He had ample opportunity and warning from the very people he hired to make it less racist, but he refused to do so. Let us not make excuses for him now. Karina Longworth's You Must Remember This podcast is currently running an excellent and, as always, well researched series on Song of the South and its inescapably racist message (then and now):
www.youmustrememberthispodcast.com/episodesI loved the episode where rabid anti-Communist Disney hires a known (and white) Communist to fix the script because he recognized there were problems and that dude’s opinion would be 180 degrees from his. And then they still ignored much of what he told them! The Hayes movie censorship office, which wasn’t exactly progressive, had them remove terms like “darkies”. So yeah, it was called out as racist in its day, Disney was completely aware and rather than saying “this is a bad idea” they said “how can we whitewash this?” (And then he blamed the film’s lackluster performance on the Communists. Heh.) |
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AKA
Terry Kath
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Post by AKA on Dec 3, 2019 17:21:49 GMT
And dammit, I want a 4K "Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah". Disney have already given Song of the South a brand new 4K restoration; even correcting some defective cel animation from the time of it's initial making. Whether anyone actually ever sees it is another matter, however... The people who are wanting it to remain locked in the vaults are the same hyper-sensitive snowflakes who have no problem pushing their own agendas in television and film... release it with a disclaimer, and maybe a documentary about it's history, legacy, and continued controversy. Everyone wins. You'd think that film is pushing hardcore porn to minors the way it still stirs up emotions... a Walt Disney film made in 1946, for goodness sake's... I mean, really :rolleyes:!!! The people who are wanting it to remain locked in the vaults are the same hyper-sensitive snowflakes who have no problem pushing their own agendas in television and film... release it with a disclaimer, and maybe a documentary about it's history, legacy, and continued controversy. Everyone wins. I’ve died and to gone to Breitbart. Gross Sorry mate, wrong person. I don't frequent that or any other political/news site... nice try deflecting honest debate though. Here's a penny... go buy yourself a life. Nice to know you support censorship though... or does that only apply to things you find objectionable? That way lies tyranny... :tiphat: Sorry mate, wrong person. I don't frequent that or any other political/news site... nice try deflecting honest debate though. Here's a penny... go buy yourself a life. Nice to know you support censorship though... or does that only apply to things you find objectionable? That way lies tyranny... :tiphat: I don't think you know what "censorship" means. I suppose that's not surprising considering you distilled decades of extremely complicated racial issues down to a couple of tired, thoughtless tropes. :tiphat: dan c I don't think you know what "censorship" means. I suppose that's not surprising considering you distilled decades of extremely complicated racial issues down to a couple of tired, thoughtless tropes. :tiphat: dan c I know exactly what censorship is... and pretending that Song of the South doesn't exist, withholding it from public exhibition because of some objections from overly-sensitive political activists is exactly that... it's insidious, fascistic, and hypocritical. Ever hear of a little thing called the First Amendment? I've got news for you; it's not conditional... And there's nothing complicated about it; that film is either inherently racist or it's not... and I'm saying it's not; the main African-American character is portrayed in a very warm and sympathetic light... shall we ban any films that portray a stereotypical Irish or Jew or Chinese person? Shall we ban Breakfast at Tiffany's for example? Where does it end? But here's a hanky for your snowflake tears... go cry yourself to sleep, at least that way you won't have to deal with this awful, terrible, cruel real world... poor little princess. Here endeth the lesson. :tiphat: I know exactly what censorship is... and pretending that Song of the South doesn't exist, withholding it from public exhibition because of some objections from overly-sensitive political activists is exactly that... it's insidious, fascistic, and hypocritical. Ever hear of a little thing called the First Amendment? I've got news for you; it's not conditional... And there's nothing complicated about it; that film is either inherently racist or it's not... and I'm saying it's not; the main African-American character is portrayed in a very warm and sympathetic light... shall we ban any films that portray a stereotypical Irish or Jew or Chinese person? Shall we ban Breakfast at Tiffany's for example? Where does it end? But here's a hanky for your snowflake tears... go cry yourself to sleep, at least that way you won't have to deal with this awful, terrible, cruel real world... poor little princess. Here endeth the lesson. :tiphat: Nope, see right there bringing up the First Amendment in this context. You clearly do not know what you're talking about. Seriously, you seem all worked up because you can't watch a painfully racist, obsolete movie of middling quality and nearly zero commercial value that its owner prefers didn't exist. Who's the snowflake here? :tiphat: dan c |
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Post by blahdiofile on Dec 4, 2019 3:43:55 GMT
What a wonderful forum
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