Felonious Spunk
Grant
Digitals downstairs to push the anal logs upstairs
Posts: 1,192
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Post by Felonious Spunk on Jan 15, 2020 15:59:37 GMT
(Sarcasm off)
“We’ll fix it in the mastering” is not a phrase you will ever hear, or at least you shouldn’t. When I’m mastering, my job is to make sure there aren’t any crazy peaks or level variations and give the manufacturer something they can press and put in a store. If I’m doing much more than that, either the recording engineer fucked up or I am fucking up by imposing my own will on the project. The decision for the sound is the client’s, not mine. I’ve always found the concept of a mastering engineer with a “signature” sound ala STeVE to be contrary to what the job is supposed to be.
The Mark Linnett comment about the DCC Pet Sounds being something that a listener might enjoy, but it not being Brian Wilson’s intent kind of sums it up for me.
Edit: I don’t mean to make it sound like I’m shitting on the people who do this professionally, which I am not. But I think people like STeVE do a disservice by making it seem like this is some magical process. It’s not. A competent intern could do a half decent job with decent source material. But I’ve worked with people who seem to think mastering is some fix for their shitty recording and it’s not.
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Post by Brick Wall on Jan 15, 2020 17:19:24 GMT
And towards the end of the line those crumbs got to be very few indeed. Most of the last projects were done by Kevin Gray.
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Post by turntablist on Jan 15, 2020 19:48:29 GMT
Weren't all of "Steve's" projects done by someone else? Someone who handled the tape, moved the sliders, and twiddled the knobs while Hoffman slumped in a chair and gurgled "uh, uhn...ago"? The engineer in question has a box of Neckvag's shit he's holding hostage in return for payment for his mastering services.
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Post by Boozin' Susan on Jan 15, 2020 20:17:24 GMT
At some point Hoffman backed away, although not completely, from referring to himself as a (if not THE) "mastering engineer" and started billing himself as an "EQ consultant." I wonder what exactly prompted this change and why. I'm not sure when exactly this started, but I do know that it was shortly after Ezrin and Emerick tore him a new asshole. I think the ridicule he brought upon himself from actual mastering engineers shamed or scared him enough to attempt to re-brand himself in a vain attempt to maintain some sort of toehold in the "industry." Ergo, "EQ consultant." To no one's surprise, that didn't work for him. Marshall Blonstein was the only one who would throw any crumbs to the guy (why?), and when he gave up on the reissue biz, that was curtains for Hoffman and his "mastering guru" folly. Well, STeVE is now proudly back to proclaiming himself a “Mastering Engineer”. He has that title sandwiched between his name and his “Your Host” banner.
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Post by essayceedee on Jan 15, 2020 23:39:50 GMT
STeVE needs to start selling candles that smell like his neck vagina.
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Post by 5kbooster on Jan 16, 2020 2:14:25 GMT
(Sarcasm off) “We’ll fix it in the mastering” is not a phrase you will ever hear, or at least you shouldn’t. When I’m mastering, my job is to make sure there aren’t any crazy peaks or level variations and give the manufacturer something they can press and put in a store. If I’m doing much more than that, either the recording engineer fucked up or I am fucking up by imposing my own will on the project. The decision for the sound is the client’s, not mine. I’ve always found the concept of a mastering engineer with a “signature” sound ala STeVE to be contrary to what the job is supposed to be. The Mark Linnett comment about the DCC Pet Sounds being something that a listener might enjoy, but it not being Brian Wilson’s intent kind of sums it up for me. Edit: I don’t mean to make it sound like I’m shitting on the people who do this professionally, which I am not. But I think people like STeVE do a disservice by making it seem like this is some magical process. It’s not. A competent intern could do a half decent job with decent source material. But I’ve worked with people who seem to think mastering is some fix for their shitty recording and it’s not. You nailed it BuckO! “fix in the mix” & “fix it in mastering” are phrases you DON’T ever wanna hear. Therefore, It’s best to avoid mop up jobs & turd polishing whenever possible. Shit does happen, it’s the nature of the game. However, the ideal is to get it all correct early on in production, so it doesn’t come back to bite you in the ass later. I’m NOT offended in the least. You’re telling like it is and calling sTeVe on his huckster bullshit. I’ve sat in both chairs, mixing & mastering. It’s just a job, and occasionally can get boring at times... That’s why I think hoof is such a Bozo putting himself on pedestal and posing with “master tapes.” (lmao)what an idiot. It’s the Artist’s talent on those records which make them great, the technical is merely secondary. Truth is, a catchy song and especially a great song will ALWAYS transcend its recording medium. Most ppl don’t care if it’s stereo/ mono and nor shitty mix can kill a good song. Those are good mastering habits you’re practicing. Right, it’s the Client’s choice, they are paying the tab. “signature sound” my ass... sTeVe is the rfreeman of mastering engineers... if you’re reading this Gnrat, climb out of Hoof’s tailpipe and get some fresh air.
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Post by 5kbooster on Jan 16, 2020 2:33:23 GMT
At some point Hoffman backed away, although not completely, from referring to himself as a (if not THE) "mastering engineer" and started billing himself as an "EQ consultant." I wonder what exactly prompted this change and why. I'm not sure when exactly this started, but I do know that it was shortly after Ezrin and Emerick tore him a new asshole. I think the ridicule he brought upon himself from actual mastering engineers shamed or scared him enough to attempt to re-brand himself in a vain attempt to maintain some sort of toehold in the "industry." Ergo, "EQ consultant." To no one's surprise, that didn't work for him. Marshall Blonstein was the only one who would throw any crumbs to the guy (why?), and when he gave up on the reissue biz, that was curtains for Hoffman and his "mastering guru" folly. This sounds highly plausible. I think if Hoofy had kept his mouth shut, he probably could have pulled his scam for a lot longer. You simply don’t run down peers(he doesn’t have any, but you know what I mean.) There’s a boatload of crackpots in the A.E. Game. However, a lot of them get work. That’s cause they can do the job and they DON’T talk shit about others. Although, I must admit it is customary to talk shit about clientele. It’s mainly because; sometimes they can be a pain in the ass to deal with. Often you’ll hear no name pro R.E.s & M.E.s venting about them, at a hole in the wall AE forum online somewhere. STeVe openly talking shit about mid & top tiers, that was the kiss of death...
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bradman
Better than Steve
Posts: 5,140
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Post by bradman on Jan 16, 2020 2:37:03 GMT
It's fucking awesome that there's way more knowledge about this stuff here.
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UDII
Cynthia
Posts: 1,330
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Post by UDII on Jan 16, 2020 4:27:44 GMT
And towards the end of the line those crumbs got to be very few indeed. Most of the last projects were done by Kevin Gray. No no, he told the flock he gave the projects to "Señor Gray" on occasion.
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Post by 5kbooster on Jan 16, 2020 4:47:08 GMT
Instead of “ Breath of life” ——> “Fix it in mastering” should be Hoof’s trademark. Because that phrase is “water from cement”.( as I said earlier.) Once again, if one were to take sTeVe at face value, you’d be led to believe he’s got the “magical ability” to “entirely remix” an old master tape. Yeah...sure you do.
There’s several reasons why hoof’s claim isn’t possible WITHOUT affecting the mix and sacrificing the song’s soul. However, I’ll start with this one... For those who never heard the term: “Frequency Masking”, it’s a VERY important one in Audio Engineering. Frequency Masking is a common problem in mixing, ESPECIALLY in older recordings. This term is a book in itself, but here’s a layman’s explanation: like the word sounds; “Masking, hide behind a Mask”. Of course, not a literal mask, but a mask of audio frequencies. Namely, frequencies which share the same/similar audio real estate. (Basically an “overlapping effect”, which affects mix clarity.)
For example: Human Voice and Guitar share similar audio frequency space (real estate). A Kick Drum and Bass Guitar also share similar frequency space (real estate). Those example instruments, aka “mix elements” are therefore prone to “Frequency Masking“. In fact, ALL mix elements can be prone to Frequency Masking, depending on what instruments AND mixing decisions were chosen for given song. Sometimes, bad studio monitoring(Speakers) & room acoustics caused it. The room & speakers were “lying” to them and causes the Engineer to make poor mix decisions. (That’s why it’s important to have your own room...sTeVe! so you can LEARN its deficiencies and compensate for them. ”know thy monitors...”)
Now the issue of Frequency Masking is easier to combat in modern audio productions. It’s simply because of advancements in recording technology and improved mixing techniques. For example: take the Human voice and Guitar masking issue. Nowadays, It’s more common to “Duck”, or lower the Guitar’s volume whenever the main vocals are present in the mix. This is achieved via “sidechain compressor”, or even mix automation. Decades ago, this practice wasn’t common or even practical due to technical limitations of the gear.
As I said earlier, “Frequency Masking” can be heard on MANY older recordings. That’s why you’ll hear certain songs that sound “dull” and other songs where certain instruments appear indistinguishable. Frankly, there isn’t too much you can do about it. “Water from cement”.
Here’s where “Corrective EQ” comes into play. If a recording has something “annoying” about it such as: a resonant frequency(s), which is distracting the music or causing a translation problem; by all means reduce it or try to get rid of it. This would be considered as an enhancement/improvement. However, anything after that your mileage will vary greatly. That’s because the frequency masking may be part and parcel to the audio material. Simply, because it was mixed that way. A lot of Tom Dowd’s stuff comes to mind. Nothing wrong with that, it was his style and it worked for him. Old Zeppelin & Beatles mixes have it too. However, if you start going to town and try removing Frequency Masking on these types of mixes, there’s a VERY strong chance you’re going fuck the mix balance up.
Furthermore, this “smearing effect” which Frequency Masking can cause was sometimes a chosen style aesthetic of the times. Meaning that, a lot of older recordings had mixes with “highlighted elements” and “layering elements”, which were not necessary meant to be heard clearly. Think of it as “ mix filler”. Spector’s wall of sound comes to mind.
IMO, to “modernize” a vintage sounding mix from yesteryear is pointless really. It’s just going sound like merda... winds up being a former shell of itself.
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Post by audiopro on Jan 16, 2020 10:37:45 GMT
The self-aggrandisement which pissed me off was when he put "Daddy Tonmeister" under his name. I didn't make the Tonmeister course (failed on the maths), but I've worked with a few, and they have all been absolutely shit-hot. To see Hoffman cheapen the title by applying it to himself, while continually proving that he knows next to fuck all, made my blood boil.
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Post by Aural Relations on Jan 16, 2020 11:15:18 GMT
Tonmeister is to EQ consultant, as doctor is to single mother on FB selling essential oils and healing crystals.
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Post by Sanjay Gupton on Jan 16, 2020 13:13:45 GMT
(Sarcasm off) “We’ll fix it in the mastering” is not a phrase you will ever hear, or at least you shouldn’t. When I’m mastering, my job is to make sure there aren’t any crazy peaks or level variations and give the manufacturer something they can press and put in a store. If I’m doing much more than that, either the recording engineer fucked up or I am fucking up by imposing my own will on the project. The decision for the sound is the client’s, not mine. I’ve always found the concept of a mastering engineer with a “signature” sound ala STeVE to be contrary to what the job is supposed to be. The Mark Linnett comment about the DCC Pet Sounds being something that a listener might enjoy, but it not being Brian Wilson’s intent kind of sums it up for me. Edit: I don’t mean to make it sound like I’m shitting on the people who do this professionally, which I am not. But I think people like STeVE do a disservice by making it seem like this is some magical process. It’s not. A competent intern could do a half decent job with decent source material. But I’ve worked with people who seem to think mastering is some fix for their shitty recording and it’s not. You nailed it BuckO! “fix in the mix” & “fix it in mastering” are phrases you DON’T ever wanna hear. Therefore, It’s best to avoid mop up jobs & turd polishing whenever possible. Shit does happen, it’s the nature of the game. However, the ideal is to get it all correct early on in production, so it doesn’t come back to bite you in the ass later. I’m NOT offended in the least. You’re telling like it is and calling sTeVe on his huckster bullshit. I’ve sat in both chairs, mixing & mastering. It’s just a job, and occasionally can get boring at times... That’s why I think hoof is such a Bozo putting himself on pedestal and posing with “master tapes.” (lmao)what an idiot. It’s the Artist’s talent on those records which make them great, the technical is merely secondary. Truth is, a catchy song and especially a great song will ALWAYS transcend its recording medium. Most ppl don’t care if it’s stereo/ mono and nor shitty mix can kill a good song. Those are good mastering habits you’re practicing. Right, it’s the Client’s choice, they are paying the tab. “signature sound” my ass... sTeVe is the rfreeman of mastering engineers... if you’re reading this Gnrat, climb out of Hoof’s tailpipe and get some fresh air.MYKE does NOT like this. MYKE can't wait for Chris Bellman's new record.
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bradman
Better than Steve
Posts: 5,140
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Post by bradman on Jan 16, 2020 13:25:37 GMT
Instead of “ Breath of life” ——> “Fix it in mastering” should be Hoof’s trademark. Because that phrase is “water from cement”.( as I said earlier.) Once again, if one were to take sTeVe at face value, you’d be led to believe he’s got the “magical ability” to “entirely remix” an old master tape. Yeah...sure you do. There’s several reasons why hoof’s claim isn’t possible WITHOUT affecting the mix and sacrificing the song’s soul. However, I’ll start with this one... For those who never heard the term: “Frequency Masking”, it’s a VERY important one in Audio Engineering. Frequency Masking is a common problem in mixing, ESPECIALLY in older recordings. This term is a book in itself, but here’s a layman’s explanation: like the word sounds; “Masking, hide behind a Mask”. Of course, not a literal mask, but a mask of audio frequencies. Namely, frequencies which share the same/similar audio real estate. (Basically an “overlapping effect”, which affects mix clarity.) For example: Human Voice and Guitar share similar audio frequency space (real estate). A Kick Drum and Bass Guitar also share similar frequency space (real estate). Those example instruments, aka “mix elements” are therefore prone to “Frequency Masking“. In fact, ALL mix elements can be prone to Frequency Masking, depending on what instruments AND mixing decisions were chosen for given song. Sometimes, bad studio monitoring(Speakers) & room acoustics caused it. The room & speakers were “lying” to them and causes the Engineer to make poor mix decisions. (That’s why it’s important to have your own room...sTeVe! so you can LEARN its deficiencies and compensate for them. ”know thy monitors...”) Now the issue of Frequency Masking is easier to combat in modern audio productions. It’s simply because of advancements in recording technology and improved mixing techniques. For example: take the Human voice and Guitar masking issue. Nowadays, It’s more common to “Duck”, or lower the Guitar’s volume whenever the main vocals are present in the mix. This is achieved via “sidechain compressor”, or even mix automation. Decades ago, this practice wasn’t common or even practical due to technical limitations of the gear. As I said earlier, “Frequency Masking” can be heard on MANY older recordings. That’s why you’ll hear certain songs that sound “dull” and other songs where certain instruments appear indistinguishable. Frankly, there isn’t too much you can do about it. “Water from cement”. Here’s where “Corrective EQ” comes into play. If a recording has something “annoying” about it such as: a resonant frequency(s), which is distracting the music or causing a translation problem; by all means reduce it or try to get rid of it. This would be considered as an enhancement/improvement. However, anything after that your mileage will vary greatly. That’s because the frequency masking may be part and parcel to the audio material. Simply, because it was mixed that way. A lot of Tom Dowd’s stuff comes to mind. Nothing wrong with that, it was his style and it worked for him. Old Zeppelin & Beatles mixes have it too. However, if you start going to town and try removing Frequency Masking on these types of mixes, there’s a VERY strong chance you’re going fuck the mix balance up. Furthermore, this “smearing effect” which Frequency Masking can cause was sometimes a chosen style aesthetic of the times. Meaning that, a lot of older recordings had mixes with “highlighted elements” and “layering elements”, which were not necessary meant to be heard clearly. Think of it as “ mix filler”. Spector’s wall of sound comes to mind. IMO, to “modernize” a vintage sounding mix from yesteryear is pointless really. It’s just going sound like merda... winds up being a former shell of itself.
Maybe that's why I'm not so keen on the Beatle remixes.
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Post by 5kbooster on Jan 16, 2020 22:55:01 GMT
Yeah I know what you mean, rather clinical & sterile sounding IMO. “Re-Milks”=$$$.
Not to come off like a Sap but...This thread can go on & on & on. However; The BEST comment, knowledge, advice and wisdom you’ll ever read is what Bob wrote right here: “One more thing: the way we made records, the mastering was an integral part of the process. No one took our stuff and reinterpreted it for purposes of mastering. What was mastered back then is what we wanted to hear. Regardless of your take on the quality of the sound of the original album, that IS what we were going for and that's the sound that any true fan ought to be looking for.”
Those words ring so true. Back when I was a young “coffee boy”, I was taught & had it drilled into my head that; Artistic vision, integrity, teamwork and: ALWAYS pay attention to what the mix/master is trying to tell you comes first. “There’s no space left in the Mix for Egos”.
Notice how he uses “we” and not “I”? You should be ashamed of yourself sTeVe.
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