Is Coronavirus a Coronaportunity?
Apr 13, 2020 18:18:28 GMT
Post by Norman ‘Whiplash’ Mailer on Apr 13, 2020 18:18:28 GMT
Python
This is so freaking stupid...while older/sicker/more-at-risk people can, if they wish, choose to isolate at home and avoid gatherings and other contact for as long as they choose (or until a vaccine comes along), why should everyone else not be given a choice to gather if they wish? Look, I'm old(ish) (50), fortunately employed and can work from home, and lucky enough to have a solid financial cushion. (And, I've been to hundreds of concerts and many of my favorites have retired, broken up or died, and that number increases every year, so this isn't about me.)
But should all young, single people in their 20s and 30s really have to sit at home and do nothing fun or social for a freaking year and a half? That is ridiculous! Yes, there are rare cases where the virus strikes down young and seemingly healthy people. But most young people won't even know if they get the virus, or will feel mild symptoms at worst.
This idiotic, risk-averse obsession that we can't ****ing gather until this thing is magically totally vanquished (which it can't possibly be) blows my mind. Domestic violence - way up. Mental illness - way up. And we're only a few weeks into this! What's going to happen to people, month after month, wasting away in their apartments or whatever?
People die in car crashes all the time going to and from gatherings. Should we ban auto travel, or make the speed limit 25 mph everywhere? We would undoubtedly save many lives, but at what cost? We make these kinds of trade-offs all the time. How many people does alcohol kill each year, whether directly, or through violence or accidents? We could ban alcohol and undoubtedly save many thousands of lives!
Oh, wait, we tried that a hundred years ago. How did that turn out?
Free people should be able to make free choices about what they want to do, hopefully making educated decisions based on reasonable risk/reward calculations. And certainly free, young single people trying to 1) make a living and/or 2) enjoy life should be able to! You're going to tell me a rock band wants to play a show, and enough people want to pay and come to make it worthwhile, and the douche-bag panty waists who want everyone to hide like cowards until they magically declare it safe for everyone to come out can prevent that from happening?
That is not a society I want my son to grow up in, nor one in which I wish to live. Live free or ****ing die...
But should all young, single people in their 20s and 30s really have to sit at home and do nothing fun or social for a freaking year and a half? That is ridiculous! Yes, there are rare cases where the virus strikes down young and seemingly healthy people. But most young people won't even know if they get the virus, or will feel mild symptoms at worst.
This idiotic, risk-averse obsession that we can't ****ing gather until this thing is magically totally vanquished (which it can't possibly be) blows my mind. Domestic violence - way up. Mental illness - way up. And we're only a few weeks into this! What's going to happen to people, month after month, wasting away in their apartments or whatever?
People die in car crashes all the time going to and from gatherings. Should we ban auto travel, or make the speed limit 25 mph everywhere? We would undoubtedly save many lives, but at what cost? We make these kinds of trade-offs all the time. How many people does alcohol kill each year, whether directly, or through violence or accidents? We could ban alcohol and undoubtedly save many thousands of lives!
Oh, wait, we tried that a hundred years ago. How did that turn out?
Free people should be able to make free choices about what they want to do, hopefully making educated decisions based on reasonable risk/reward calculations. And certainly free, young single people trying to 1) make a living and/or 2) enjoy life should be able to! You're going to tell me a rock band wants to play a show, and enough people want to pay and come to make it worthwhile, and the douche-bag panty waists who want everyone to hide like cowards until they magically declare it safe for everyone to come out can prevent that from happening?
That is not a society I want my son to grow up in, nor one in which I wish to live. Live free or ****ing die...
Markreed
Die, it is, then. The virus doesn't care for your opinions, or beliefs about liberty. It cares only for its survival.
Educated decisions only matter when people actually know the facts. If you think medical experts are "douche bag panty waists" then frankly.. you aren't the expert here and your opinion is worthless.
Educated decisions only matter when people actually know the facts. If you think medical experts are "douche bag panty waists" then frankly.. you aren't the expert here and your opinion is worthless.
Python
But that's the point - most people are NOT going to die. And those of us willing to take that chance should have that option. Me and the two women who sit on either side of me were each the sickest we'd been in years earlier this year, one after the other. (I live in the S.F. Bay Area). So I very well may have already have had it, along with many others, as some medical experts have said about California, starting late last year and into 2020.
Meaning, there are a LOT of medical experts in the world, smart guy. I've been reading and learning a ton about this, and they don't all magically share the same opinion. So I am referring specifically to those who seem obsessed with locking everyone down for a long time - and that is certainly not all of them. I'm not pretending I'm an expert, but I'm sharing my opinion, and if you think it is worthless, then shag off. Have fun hunkering down in your abode for the rest of time if you choose to follow the advice of medical experts suggesting that. But thankfully we're not all cowards, and if enough medical experts can reasonably find away for the world to start to open back up, I will follow their lead.
I assure you, I know at least as many, if not considerably more, "facts" about this as you do.
Meaning, there are a LOT of medical experts in the world, smart guy. I've been reading and learning a ton about this, and they don't all magically share the same opinion. So I am referring specifically to those who seem obsessed with locking everyone down for a long time - and that is certainly not all of them. I'm not pretending I'm an expert, but I'm sharing my opinion, and if you think it is worthless, then shag off. Have fun hunkering down in your abode for the rest of time if you choose to follow the advice of medical experts suggesting that. But thankfully we're not all cowards, and if enough medical experts can reasonably find away for the world to start to open back up, I will follow their lead.
I assure you, I know at least as many, if not considerably more, "facts" about this as you do.
Markreed
Do you work in the medical industry? Do you know people who work in specialist wards that treat COPD and similar respiratory conditions?
Are you familiar with the fact that you may be contagious and not carry any symptoms? I'm not prepared to spread it to other people and potentially kill them. You, it seems, are.
I'd rather listen to an expert than someone who isn't. Facts and data don't care about your 'feelings'. If you don't care for the opinions of experts, I suggest you stop going to dentists and doctors, and apply weird leaves and plants to your elbow to cure your ails. Maybe sacrifice a virgin to the Gods. Leave hunches for cop movies instead of the fate of millions of people.
Are you familiar with the fact that you may be contagious and not carry any symptoms? I'm not prepared to spread it to other people and potentially kill them. You, it seems, are.
I'd rather listen to an expert than someone who isn't. Facts and data don't care about your 'feelings'. If you don't care for the opinions of experts, I suggest you stop going to dentists and doctors, and apply weird leaves and plants to your elbow to cure your ails. Maybe sacrifice a virgin to the Gods. Leave hunches for cop movies instead of the fate of millions of people.
Mbrownp1 (to markreed)
Stop. You're making yourself look foolish.
Markreed
Well in the interests of civility for this thread, I'm going to put Python on ignore. I was hoping we'd get a better level of discussion here, and I'm not going to waste my time (or anyone elses energy) thinking down to that level. I'm just glad that member is a long way away from me as it reduces the chances of any infection vector.
Music Geek (to Python’s first poat)
Being on day 9 of my covid 19 illness I can only be happy if the decisions on what happens next are taken by experts using scientific data. Obviously there will be trade-offs and nothing is always 100% safe but I hope that decisions won't be taken on the basis of the fact that people can also die in car accidents.
In this situation your "I'd rather live free" attitude has an impact on other people, not only on you. I got infected probably because someone used your stupid logic.
In this situation your "I'd rather live free" attitude has an impact on other people, not only on you. I got infected probably because someone used your stupid logic.
Mbrownp1
Or perhaps control is an illusion and you'll probably be fine anyway. Careful not to get hit by a rogue bus when you get better tho.
Music Geek
So you don't check the brakes in your car because control is an illusion... Dear me, the stupidity on display...
mbrownp1
Yeah, but my OG point was that we don't really know sh1t about this virus comparatively. The fact that people walk around asymptomatic makes it even more of a wildcard. As such, it is almost silly to think we are controlling anything...at least not nearly as much as we think we are. Also, you'll probably go thru flu-like symptoms and be fine anyway.
Music Geek
I hope so but that's not really the point. 1000s of people are dying every day and some actions are needed to limit the number of deaths.
I bet the "live free" attitude on display here would quickly disappear if some of those 1000s were close friends or loved ones.
I bet the "live free" attitude on display here would quickly disappear if some of those 1000s were close friends or loved ones.
Mbrownp1
No so sure since 2-3x as many people will die from the common flu in the US this year than have died from COVID-19 (which thankfully seems to be declining in hardest hit NY since last week). None of that ever even made the local news, never mind our collective consciousness.
But I hear ya.
But I hear ya.
Music Geek
Those numbers are not correct and if you believe them you are the victim of disinformation.
I urge you to get your information from reliable sources.
I urge you to get your information from reliable sources.
Mbrownp1
I get my info from the CDC.
Preliminary In-Season 2019-2020 Flu Burden Estimates
I'm done.
Preliminary In-Season 2019-2020 Flu Burden Estimates
I'm done.
Tkl7
You should take another look at that data, because it says influenza killed 24,000 – 62,000 people during the entire year, out of 39-56 million cases.
Coronavirus has killed almost 23,000 people in just over a MONTH, out of only 560,900 cases.
This is in no way, shape or form, less dangerous than the flu.
Coronavirus has killed almost 23,000 people in just over a MONTH, out of only 560,900 cases.
This is in no way, shape or form, less dangerous than the flu.