daved
Better than Steve
Posts: 10,547
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Post by daved on Sept 1, 2018 16:08:55 GMT
Asking some of you more hardcore jazz guys to tell me what STeVE’s problem is with RVG. Everything I own by him I enjoy. Just saw another old thread where STeVE rants about him.
So what am I missing?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2018 16:21:36 GMT
STeVE being jealous of someone who is renowned?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2018 16:22:21 GMT
I honestly don’t know if he is renowned but ... fuck it!
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Felonious Spunk
Grant
Digitals downstairs to push the anal logs upstairs
Posts: 1,192
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Post by Felonious Spunk on Sept 1, 2018 16:51:37 GMT
RVG is very highly regarded in the world of jazz. And rightfully so, imho. He’s got some duds sure. But his engineering and mastering is considered gold standard for a reason.
I’ve yet to encounter anyone who is seriously into Blue Note stuff (by which I mean spending multiple hundreds for original pressings, seeking out “Van Gelder” in the dead was, etc.) who rank STeVE’s audiophoole pressings at all. It’s not because they aren’t aware of them. It’s because they sound noticeably unlike original pressings (aka the way everyone involved with making them wanted them to sound.) STeVE has come out with several different stories for this, usually that he had to fix Rudy’s buzzes or other fuckups or that the originals were designed to be played on cheap turntables and his are more revealing. Typical STeVE bull. STeVE also claimed to have uncovered missing BN masters (Lee Morgan “Sidewinder” for one) which weren’t actually missing, among other things.
Oh and to answer the main question, STeVE’s problem with Rudy is he wasn’t afraid to hit the tape hard. Fun fact: a group like the Jazz Messangers isn’t some whispy background music. They are LOUD! Yep, you can totally hear red lining on many of RVG’s recording. That part of why they sound exciting and full of life. STeVE can’t deal with that and tried his damnest to undo all of that when he was associated with the BN stuff.
The easiest way to explain it is an RVG original is like listening to a performance. It has depth and you get sucked in. Listening to a STeVE remasterbating of a RVG recording is like listening to a recording. It sounds about arm’s length from the source. Not engaging at all.
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Post by Brick Wall on Sept 1, 2018 16:56:20 GMT
Asking some of you more hardcore jazz guys to tell me what STeVE’s problem is with RVG. Everything I own by him I enjoy. Just saw another old thread where STeVE rants about him. So what am I missing? 1. STEVE professes to have some sort of inside knowledge on a subject. Any subject. In this case, the microphones used and their alleged incompatibility with existing pre-amps. 2. STEVE tells you - having recognized and pinpointed the "problem" - what HE would have done to eliminate the issue. 3. STEVE cannot - unfortunately for mankind - reverse the damage done by hacks such as Rudy Van Gelder. 4. Sigh. 5. STEVE spreads his aged, spindly, wrinkled thighs to receive suitable nut-sack nuzzling by dipshit SHiTES, who sadly still can't process what a lying, thieving cunt he is. 6. Heh. 7. Lather. 8. Rinse. 9. Repeat.
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Post by blahdiofile on Sept 1, 2018 18:28:18 GMT
Maybe because Kevin Gray got to finish the Blue Note Music Matters campaign and he didn't? Anyway, RVG was relevant for his entire career and died an old man that fans were still tracking down to say hi to. His initials are sought after and his masterings are considered definitive. Nothing like Hoffman, whose name elicits not much more than a shoulder shrug.
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bradman
Better than Steve
Posts: 5,136
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Post by bradman on Sept 1, 2018 19:40:38 GMT
I can't speak to the vinyl masterings, but RVG recordings sound great for the most part. Original Blue Note and OJCs are the best for these on CD, the more recent RVG editions are a bit loud and bright.
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Post by krabapple on Sept 1, 2018 20:05:17 GMT
I like the few original RVG CDs I have. Rudy fucked up the remasters enough though, that I ended up re-buying used copies of the first issues. (Case in point, Erick Dolphy's 'Out to Lunch'. WTF, Rudy?)
None of which has to do with Tonemeister's bullshit critiques of the original recordings.
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bradman
Better than Steve
Posts: 5,136
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Post by bradman on Sept 1, 2018 20:57:09 GMT
Verve, Blue Note, OJC, gimme ALL them old jazz CDs.
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Post by mintyjackhole on Sept 1, 2018 21:55:37 GMT
Pretty SHiteY for my first post, but if I remember correctly the stereo is on OUT TO LUNCH is very narrow, almost mono, plus it is on the bright side. What do I know? I like it.
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bradman
Better than Steve
Posts: 5,136
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Post by bradman on Sept 1, 2018 22:54:07 GMT
The last two RVGs I owned, Somethin Else, and Blue Train, were both loud and bright. That remaster campaign seemed unnecessary to me.
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Post by mintyjackhole on Sept 2, 2018 1:06:30 GMT
The early stuff definitely faired best as far as the RVG series went. Best sounding Monk and Bud Powell too. The series also brought a few later albums into print that hadn't been available outside the Japanese market.
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bradman
Better than Steve
Posts: 5,136
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Post by bradman on Sept 2, 2018 1:53:50 GMT
I like the McMaster Blue Notes quite a bit.
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Post by screendump on Sept 2, 2018 7:05:56 GMT
When the McMasters were coming out on CD the audiophools complained for years until the RVGs started, then they began to praise the McMasters.
I've always liked the McMasters, but even the 'bad' RVGs sound OK to me if you shave off a bit of treble. And the 'narrowed' stereo some people dislike I prefer for headphone listening.
I thought RVG did a nice job on the Grachan Moncur and Bobby Hutcherson stuff.
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Felonious Spunk
Grant
Digitals downstairs to push the anal logs upstairs
Posts: 1,192
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Post by Felonious Spunk on Sept 2, 2018 13:01:25 GMT
When the McMasters were coming out on CD the audiophools complained for years until the RVGs started, then they began to praise the McMasters. Just like the Beatles CDs, really. The narrow stereo thing is a bit more controversial. Rudy has said he always intended these recording to be mono and many of the stereo versions are obviously a two track tape that wasn't intended to be heard as stereo. IIRC, Rudy was still monitoring in mono well into the 60s. Of course, some people prefer that W I D E stereo and, you may be shocked, but STeVE has opinions on this too. (That's another reason the stuff he had anything to has a meh reputation among serious collectors.)
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