Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2019 22:11:04 GMT
Steve E:
STeVE:
Steve E:
STeVE:
As many here know, Thelonious Monk's 1957 Riverside album "Monk's Music" was the label's first jazz album released in both mono (RLP 12-242) and stereo (RLP 1102). As discussed on this forum, it's an unusual album in that the mono mix was recorded using an entirely separate microphone setup from the stereo.
Producer Orrin Keepnews: “Our new stereo series had begun with a sound effects disc, so Riverside 1102 [Monk's Music] was our first stereo jazz album. But we had to deal with the fact that the studio had not yet taken the drastic step of converting to the new process: the installed equipment at Reeves Sound Studios (on 2nd Avenue between 44th and 45th Streets in Manhattan) was still monaural. Thus, we had to improvise a dual system. Studio engineer Jack Higgins presided at his usual control panel; our staff engineer Ray Fowler was in the soundproof isolation booths in the studio with a newfangled portable stereo tape recorder. Thus, on this and several subsequent occasions, ‘binaural’ was an entirely separate operation. Among other things, every musician found himself surrounded by a doubled quantity of microphones.”
It has also been discussed here and elsewhere that the take of "Crepuscule with Nellie" used on the album only exists in mono. Keepnews again, in the notes to the 1986 Riverside Monk box:
"This was one of our very first stereo recordings (although the separate machine failed us on Crepuscule); confusingly, the monaural version has sometimes been used in reissues, but I have managed to include here in stereo form everything that is available in that form."
(source: SACD of Monk's Music is Stereo!!!! )
Now, what I haven't seen discussed here is this. On the original stereo abum, "Crepuscule with Nellie" was not included. It's not just that they used the mono mix. They left it off the album. I discovered this on Discogs.com and added it to the wikipedia entry for that album. I don't know whether this was a space consideration; perhaps early stereo discs had shorter running times. There is apparently at least one other case of a stereo Riverside albums missing a cut.
Here is the original stereo version that's missing "Nellie."
Thelonious Monk Septet - Monk's Music
OK, so according to discogs, Riverside did a bunch of confusing things in the 1960's. They re-released a stereo Monk's Music with a new catalog number: RLP 12-9242. Some versions of this have the same red wagon cover. Like this one:
Thelonious Monk Septet - Monk's Music
But this one has a new flowery cover:
Thelonious Monk Septet - Monk's Music
And the note says:
"Stereo Release with early 60s Black and Silver Microphone and Reels label, with deep groove (smaller diameter) disk inside redesigned Orpheum Productions reissue cover. Marked mono, but stickered with an oval "STEREO" on front cover. Lists Crepuscule with Nellie as Side 2 track 3, but like the original stereo release Thelonious Monk Septet - Monk's Music from which this is repressed, this track is not present. With Bill Grauer Productions Inc at the bottom of label."
There is also a stereo-covered version that has the original mono serial number (12-242) on the label -- according to Discogs, this is also missing Nellie, but I don't know if this is reliable: Thelonious Monk Septet - Monk's Music
Then, in 1967, there are "stereo" versions with a serial number of RS 3004 which appear to be reprocessed from the mono mix.
So, my question is this:
What vinyl versions "Monk's Music" contain the true stereo mix and ACTUALLY contain the track "Crepuscule with Nellie" in any form (mono or reprocessed stereo)? Do they exist? How does one identify them? I can't find this information anywhere.
Producer Orrin Keepnews: “Our new stereo series had begun with a sound effects disc, so Riverside 1102 [Monk's Music] was our first stereo jazz album. But we had to deal with the fact that the studio had not yet taken the drastic step of converting to the new process: the installed equipment at Reeves Sound Studios (on 2nd Avenue between 44th and 45th Streets in Manhattan) was still monaural. Thus, we had to improvise a dual system. Studio engineer Jack Higgins presided at his usual control panel; our staff engineer Ray Fowler was in the soundproof isolation booths in the studio with a newfangled portable stereo tape recorder. Thus, on this and several subsequent occasions, ‘binaural’ was an entirely separate operation. Among other things, every musician found himself surrounded by a doubled quantity of microphones.”
It has also been discussed here and elsewhere that the take of "Crepuscule with Nellie" used on the album only exists in mono. Keepnews again, in the notes to the 1986 Riverside Monk box:
"This was one of our very first stereo recordings (although the separate machine failed us on Crepuscule); confusingly, the monaural version has sometimes been used in reissues, but I have managed to include here in stereo form everything that is available in that form."
(source: SACD of Monk's Music is Stereo!!!! )
Now, what I haven't seen discussed here is this. On the original stereo abum, "Crepuscule with Nellie" was not included. It's not just that they used the mono mix. They left it off the album. I discovered this on Discogs.com and added it to the wikipedia entry for that album. I don't know whether this was a space consideration; perhaps early stereo discs had shorter running times. There is apparently at least one other case of a stereo Riverside albums missing a cut.
Here is the original stereo version that's missing "Nellie."
Thelonious Monk Septet - Monk's Music
OK, so according to discogs, Riverside did a bunch of confusing things in the 1960's. They re-released a stereo Monk's Music with a new catalog number: RLP 12-9242. Some versions of this have the same red wagon cover. Like this one:
Thelonious Monk Septet - Monk's Music
But this one has a new flowery cover:
Thelonious Monk Septet - Monk's Music
And the note says:
"Stereo Release with early 60s Black and Silver Microphone and Reels label, with deep groove (smaller diameter) disk inside redesigned Orpheum Productions reissue cover. Marked mono, but stickered with an oval "STEREO" on front cover. Lists Crepuscule with Nellie as Side 2 track 3, but like the original stereo release Thelonious Monk Septet - Monk's Music from which this is repressed, this track is not present. With Bill Grauer Productions Inc at the bottom of label."
There is also a stereo-covered version that has the original mono serial number (12-242) on the label -- according to Discogs, this is also missing Nellie, but I don't know if this is reliable: Thelonious Monk Septet - Monk's Music
Then, in 1967, there are "stereo" versions with a serial number of RS 3004 which appear to be reprocessed from the mono mix.
So, my question is this:
What vinyl versions "Monk's Music" contain the true stereo mix and ACTUALLY contain the track "Crepuscule with Nellie" in any form (mono or reprocessed stereo)? Do they exist? How does one identify them? I can't find this information anywhere.
STeVE:
I was the first to tackle editing the stereo from the session reel. First came out on the vinyl I did with Kevin Gray for AP, no other..
Steve E:
Well, I think there was a Japanese vinyl edition from the 70's that was in at least "stereo" that had the track. Thelonious Monk Septet - Monk's Music
So my question is: Does every true stereo 60's version, even those with the track listed, skip including ANY version of the track? I guess I'm asking about those with the number "9242" on the cover or disc. (And is that a "true stereo" version?)
So my question is: Does every true stereo 60's version, even those with the track listed, skip including ANY version of the track? I guess I'm asking about those with the number "9242" on the cover or disc. (And is that a "true stereo" version?)
STeVE:
Nonetheless, I was the first to actually do it. There was nothing whatsoever wrong with the stereo version of that song. It simply was not edited for stereo back in the day and existed on a reel with a bunch of takes unedited. I edited it. Took two days to match the mono..