Redbook CD is the Future of Audio!
May 5, 2023 17:17:51 GMT
Post by Sanjay Gupton on May 5, 2023 17:17:51 GMT
Apparently STeVe's favorite company believes plain old CD's, like the kind you get at Goodwill 3 shopping bags full for a dollar is the ultimate Hi Fi experience. I don't care much one way or another what Audio Note UK thinks, but now it appears that CD is even more difficult to get good sound from than vinyl!
SHiTe Richard Austen has this to say:
Well, it's an eye-roller statement if you don't like their sound or have not heard it directly compared to computer-based audio. The theory says they are wrong and that computer audio is superior - but practice is another matter and there are things like power supplies and output stages that tend to be factors. It's the same with vinyl - on another forum, a fellow said vinyl sucks because the noise level is too high on classical or inner groove distortion etc. But I get none of that on my turntable (unless of course, the vinyl record itself is abysmal).
Ao it sort of matters what you compare to what. Peter Qvortrup believes his CD players, transports and DACS sound far better than the competition's computer audio playback (or their CD players). I was listening to their CD 4.1x one-box player and I was thinking what I could sell to get one - it's very expensive - like $13,000 for a bloody CD player (and you can't use it as a DAC). They sell these things because people value CD reproduction or when they audition this player they will value CD reproduction.
A lot of people got rid of their vinyl collections - then after a while went "oops that was a mistake" and then went back and rebought their vinyl collections. CD is going through this a little bit WHEN people audition a truly staggeringly good CD player like the 4.1x. Run-of-the-mill CD players are all "meh" and the convenience of downloads is too difficult to pass up - i have thousands of tracks on hard drives. The problem is that to get CD to sound truly amazing requires something like the 4.1x and it is a LOT of money. At relatively normal prices CD players aren't really super special.
Although I will say that the entry-level Audio Note 0.1x DAC that I own (which has USB input from a computer) is really quite good. My old audio dealer in Canada put one of them in every system in the store to improve CD and digital. I like it because it's affordable and it doesn't get in the way so I have more money to put to vinyl replay.
Simoon can consistently pick Hi Res from Redbook, though. Granted, his "test" is two high res sources vs. one Redbook, so just guessing will give you the results Simoon thinks he hears:
About 5 years ago, I took part in a double blind listening test comparing 16/44.1 vs 24/192 vs quad DSD, and I (and most others there) were able to consistently hear the difference between the hi res files and 16/44.1.
Most of the difference I heard was in: soundstage size, better defined image within the soundstage, and pretty much anything that has to do with spatial cues.
McLover can hear way better than even Simoon:
I would go slightly further. 24 bit, 48 Khz is plenty for most trained ears. Even at 59 years of age, I can hear that difference. Timbre, image, and room sound are better, as is low level details. CD is fine, however.
Rich-n-roll ain't having that, though:
Whens the last time you had a hearing test ?
But Simoon drops the mic:
6 months ago. University audiology laboratory. I can still hear flat to 19 Kilohertz, usable to 21,000 Hertz. I avoided exposure to nightclubs, discos, and construction sites. And excessive SPL. It helped me greatly.
Richard Austen gets us back on track with why you can't hear decent digital without spending real money:
On top of that Audio Note CD players sound a fair bit different than anything else in the industry due to their NOS design, tubes and transformers serving as a pseudo analog filter (with no error correction or digital filters). They, and their fans, will tell you it sounds better than any other CD design. And while one may agree to disagree about that - you will hear a difference/improvement as you go from their $1,500 unit to their $3,000 to their $6,000 to their $8,000 etc up the line. This is partly why people tend to like the brand because when you pay more you hear more. As you noted you can spend $3,000 on the GL700 and then spend $15k on an Esoteric and be "meh." It might be so close one would not be able to pass a blind test.
cjay can hear the difference:
Back in 1995, I heard the Nagra demo in L.A. at the last Stereophile audio show, comparing Redbook (4416) to both 2496 and 192-24. I and everybody else in the room (8 at a time) gasped out loud when they went from 2496 to CD-audio (4416). I was done with CD from that point on.
DyersEve726 ain't buying what cjay is selling:
The fact that people gasped leads me to believe the demo was rigged. Most people can barely tell the difference. 8 out of 8 people hearing such a difference that they gasp is beyond suspect. Blind tests have proven over and over that the differences are very slim at best. They probably played everyone a 92kbps MP3, lol.
cjay has to prove himself, though:
Yeah, sure thing dude. There were 100 people on line waiting to get into the demo when I left.
They slap each other around like a Napoleon Dynamite fight and it's kind of sad.
I had to flush the toilet on this one from here on out. I can actually feel my brain starting to die.
SHiTe Richard Austen has this to say:
Well, it's an eye-roller statement if you don't like their sound or have not heard it directly compared to computer-based audio. The theory says they are wrong and that computer audio is superior - but practice is another matter and there are things like power supplies and output stages that tend to be factors. It's the same with vinyl - on another forum, a fellow said vinyl sucks because the noise level is too high on classical or inner groove distortion etc. But I get none of that on my turntable (unless of course, the vinyl record itself is abysmal).
Ao it sort of matters what you compare to what. Peter Qvortrup believes his CD players, transports and DACS sound far better than the competition's computer audio playback (or their CD players). I was listening to their CD 4.1x one-box player and I was thinking what I could sell to get one - it's very expensive - like $13,000 for a bloody CD player (and you can't use it as a DAC). They sell these things because people value CD reproduction or when they audition this player they will value CD reproduction.
A lot of people got rid of their vinyl collections - then after a while went "oops that was a mistake" and then went back and rebought their vinyl collections. CD is going through this a little bit WHEN people audition a truly staggeringly good CD player like the 4.1x. Run-of-the-mill CD players are all "meh" and the convenience of downloads is too difficult to pass up - i have thousands of tracks on hard drives. The problem is that to get CD to sound truly amazing requires something like the 4.1x and it is a LOT of money. At relatively normal prices CD players aren't really super special.
Although I will say that the entry-level Audio Note 0.1x DAC that I own (which has USB input from a computer) is really quite good. My old audio dealer in Canada put one of them in every system in the store to improve CD and digital. I like it because it's affordable and it doesn't get in the way so I have more money to put to vinyl replay.
Simoon can consistently pick Hi Res from Redbook, though. Granted, his "test" is two high res sources vs. one Redbook, so just guessing will give you the results Simoon thinks he hears:
About 5 years ago, I took part in a double blind listening test comparing 16/44.1 vs 24/192 vs quad DSD, and I (and most others there) were able to consistently hear the difference between the hi res files and 16/44.1.
Most of the difference I heard was in: soundstage size, better defined image within the soundstage, and pretty much anything that has to do with spatial cues.
McLover can hear way better than even Simoon:
I would go slightly further. 24 bit, 48 Khz is plenty for most trained ears. Even at 59 years of age, I can hear that difference. Timbre, image, and room sound are better, as is low level details. CD is fine, however.
Rich-n-roll ain't having that, though:
Whens the last time you had a hearing test ?
But Simoon drops the mic:
6 months ago. University audiology laboratory. I can still hear flat to 19 Kilohertz, usable to 21,000 Hertz. I avoided exposure to nightclubs, discos, and construction sites. And excessive SPL. It helped me greatly.
Richard Austen gets us back on track with why you can't hear decent digital without spending real money:
On top of that Audio Note CD players sound a fair bit different than anything else in the industry due to their NOS design, tubes and transformers serving as a pseudo analog filter (with no error correction or digital filters). They, and their fans, will tell you it sounds better than any other CD design. And while one may agree to disagree about that - you will hear a difference/improvement as you go from their $1,500 unit to their $3,000 to their $6,000 to their $8,000 etc up the line. This is partly why people tend to like the brand because when you pay more you hear more. As you noted you can spend $3,000 on the GL700 and then spend $15k on an Esoteric and be "meh." It might be so close one would not be able to pass a blind test.
cjay can hear the difference:
Back in 1995, I heard the Nagra demo in L.A. at the last Stereophile audio show, comparing Redbook (4416) to both 2496 and 192-24. I and everybody else in the room (8 at a time) gasped out loud when they went from 2496 to CD-audio (4416). I was done with CD from that point on.
DyersEve726 ain't buying what cjay is selling:
The fact that people gasped leads me to believe the demo was rigged. Most people can barely tell the difference. 8 out of 8 people hearing such a difference that they gasp is beyond suspect. Blind tests have proven over and over that the differences are very slim at best. They probably played everyone a 92kbps MP3, lol.
cjay has to prove himself, though:
Yeah, sure thing dude. There were 100 people on line waiting to get into the demo when I left.
They slap each other around like a Napoleon Dynamite fight and it's kind of sad.
I had to flush the toilet on this one from here on out. I can actually feel my brain starting to die.
