Blakep writes a thesis about wall outlets
Dec 21, 2018 4:21:25 GMT
Post by aggressivebeta on Dec 21, 2018 4:21:25 GMT
Blakep might be the biggest sperg in SHitville.
forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/why-did-changing-a-wall-outlet-make-that-big-of-a-difference.786580/
New shill account Dean Shias starts up a thread about an Audioquest wall outlet:
Warren Jarret steps in to join in on the trolling:
Lee likes to talk about how much money he has:
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forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/why-did-changing-a-wall-outlet-make-that-big-of-a-difference.786580/
New shill account Dean Shias starts up a thread about an Audioquest wall outlet:
Dean Shias said:
Just installed an Audioquest nrg edison duplex wall outlet. It was like unleashing the flood gates of Sonics. What gives? Spent a ridiculous amount on power conditioners and wires/cables and this thing sounds like it unleashed the full potential of something. Anyone else have a similar experience and can explain?
Just installed an Audioquest nrg edison duplex wall outlet. It was like unleashing the flood gates of Sonics. What gives? Spent a ridiculous amount on power conditioners and wires/cables and this thing sounds like it unleashed the full potential of something. Anyone else have a similar experience and can explain?
mdelrossi said:
Same thing here. Replaced the cheap 15¢ outlets the eltrician put in when they installed a separate line. With some hubbell 5362’s and it was night and day dinnerence. Makes me want to buy some more “audiofile “ outlets , but that’s a rabbit hole for another year.
Same thing here. Replaced the cheap 15¢ outlets the eltrician put in when they installed a separate line. With some hubbell 5362’s and it was night and day dinnerence. Makes me want to buy some more “audiofile “ outlets , but that’s a rabbit hole for another year.
BrentB said:
I noticed a difference when I changed to some "hospital grade" outlets. Maybe the tightness of the connection and the new terminals made a difference? Also the bare wire ends I cleaned and treated. Even though oxidation is hard to see on a minute scale it is still there. Any of that can add layer(s) of "sonicc grunge" to the signals.
I noticed a difference when I changed to some "hospital grade" outlets. Maybe the tightness of the connection and the new terminals made a difference? Also the bare wire ends I cleaned and treated. Even though oxidation is hard to see on a minute scale it is still there. Any of that can add layer(s) of "sonicc grunge" to the signals.
blakep said:
If you do any serious experimentation with receptacles (not many people do), you will find that the receptacle that feeds "most" of your system will be the one that has the most effect. For anyone that is using a power conditioner to feed the majority of their components that will be the receptacle at the wall as it is indirectly feeding all the components connected to any line conditioner or power bar.
That is not to say the receptacles in the line conditioner or power bar will have no effect; they without a doubt will as the improvements in sound that can be wrought with receptacle changes are cumulative in nature.
I see you use Shunyata line conditioning so it is more than likely that conditioner has "Shunyata" receptacles, which are essentially cryoed Hubbell 5362's, which are on their own very good receptacles.
The Audioquest, at quick glance appears to be a Japan based receptacle and is probably more similar to something like the Oyaide R1 or R0, which is a clear step up from the Shunyatas and an incredibly large jump up from any $1 builder grade receptacle.
There is no placebo here. Anyone with a decent ear and reasonably resolving system will hear improvements with better receptacles and, as I stated, those improvements are huge, cumulative (ie. you will reap more and more benefit by replacing any standard builder grade receptacle in the system including those in line conditioners/power bars) and more apparent when moving from something like a builder grade to a really upmarket receptacle like the Audioquest appears to be or the Oyaides and upper range Furutechs.
The difficulty is that it is indeed a bit of a rabbit hole as these receptacles can and will have very different "sounds"; what may work in one system may not work in another and subjective listening preferences can clearly come into play. And they can get pricey.
Some of the newer receptacles are becoming very expensive as well and at a certain point you have to ask yourself if you are getting good value for money. I personally draw the line around $100 for a receptacle and only have one of those in use (an Oyaide R1) in my system as the main receptacle at the wall that feeds my integrated amplifier as well as my line conditioner.
The receptacles in my line conditioner have been replaced with a couple (of the best) cryoed Hubbell variants that I experimented with many years ago. Every once in a while I think about replacing those with either Oyaide R1's or trying out an Oyaide R0, but I just don't seem to get around to it.
If you do any serious experimentation with receptacles (not many people do), you will find that the receptacle that feeds "most" of your system will be the one that has the most effect. For anyone that is using a power conditioner to feed the majority of their components that will be the receptacle at the wall as it is indirectly feeding all the components connected to any line conditioner or power bar.
That is not to say the receptacles in the line conditioner or power bar will have no effect; they without a doubt will as the improvements in sound that can be wrought with receptacle changes are cumulative in nature.
I see you use Shunyata line conditioning so it is more than likely that conditioner has "Shunyata" receptacles, which are essentially cryoed Hubbell 5362's, which are on their own very good receptacles.
The Audioquest, at quick glance appears to be a Japan based receptacle and is probably more similar to something like the Oyaide R1 or R0, which is a clear step up from the Shunyatas and an incredibly large jump up from any $1 builder grade receptacle.
There is no placebo here. Anyone with a decent ear and reasonably resolving system will hear improvements with better receptacles and, as I stated, those improvements are huge, cumulative (ie. you will reap more and more benefit by replacing any standard builder grade receptacle in the system including those in line conditioners/power bars) and more apparent when moving from something like a builder grade to a really upmarket receptacle like the Audioquest appears to be or the Oyaides and upper range Furutechs.
The difficulty is that it is indeed a bit of a rabbit hole as these receptacles can and will have very different "sounds"; what may work in one system may not work in another and subjective listening preferences can clearly come into play. And they can get pricey.
Some of the newer receptacles are becoming very expensive as well and at a certain point you have to ask yourself if you are getting good value for money. I personally draw the line around $100 for a receptacle and only have one of those in use (an Oyaide R1) in my system as the main receptacle at the wall that feeds my integrated amplifier as well as my line conditioner.
The receptacles in my line conditioner have been replaced with a couple (of the best) cryoed Hubbell variants that I experimented with many years ago. Every once in a while I think about replacing those with either Oyaide R1's or trying out an Oyaide R0, but I just don't seem to get around to it.
Slippers-on said:
You've discovered a great audiophile tweak! I installed the Oyaide R1 wall receptacles about 5 years ago and no looking back. The only negative part about it is the carbon fiber face plate that cost more. But the recepticals alone still give a huge jump in Sonics and dynamics. Now that you have that...If you want even better sound, get a few of the PS AUDIO noise harvesters.
You've discovered a great audiophile tweak! I installed the Oyaide R1 wall receptacles about 5 years ago and no looking back. The only negative part about it is the carbon fiber face plate that cost more. But the recepticals alone still give a huge jump in Sonics and dynamics. Now that you have that...If you want even better sound, get a few of the PS AUDIO noise harvesters.
blakep said:
The Shunyata and Jena Labs are both cryoed Hubbell 5362's. If you're considering those I would just purchase them from Takefiveaudio in Canada taking advantage of the lower Canadian dollar and paying much less than you would from Jena or Shunyata.
Gene will also fully burn in the receptacle(s) for $9 which I would highly recommend you do. Either that or stick your refrigerator on each half of the receptacle for a couple of weeks (about a month in total) before you consider slotting it into your system.
The Oyaide R1 is a very good receptacle and much better than both a stock Hubbell 5362 and cryoed Hubbell 5362 IMO. So I don't agree with the "review" of the Jena on the Jena website which compares it to the R1. I have no experience with the R0, which is supposed to be an interesting option as well and has unplated contacts as opposed to the platinum plated R1. Both have beryllium copper contacts.
Unlike Furutech, which cryogenically treats their receptacles before shipping, Oyaide does not cryo treat as standard; if you want cryo, which IMO will improve the R1 (I've used it both cryoed and non-cryoed), you are going to have to buy it from a seller who will treat it for you, or have it treated yourself.
Any receptacle will be subject to burn in but cryoed units will changed drastically in sonic character over the course of at least 30 days if not subject to burn in on something like an Audiodharma cable cooker or extensive use on a high current appliance like a refrigerator or chest freezer. The Oyaides are notorious for a very long burn in period-if you can have them burned in before you receive them it would also be highly recommended. If not, I'd be inclined to run them on your fridge for at least 5-6 weeks in total, maybe even a bit longer.
The Furutech GTX receptacles do get raves but they are very expensive. Furutech claims "pure copper" contacts-I've never been able to figure out how they achieve this but you will rarely find anything but absolute raves about the GTX models (as opposed to the much less expensive Furutech options). The standard plating options for the GTX are rhodium and gold. The gold will be warmer, the rhodium more analytical. I believe there may be a new GTX (or higher) model on the block as well and there are a ton of other competitors out there now in a real range of prices. It's hard to keep up with all of them.
So choose your poison. It's a bit complicated and a bit of a crapshoot. If you use 3-4 receptacles to power your system, would you be better off buying 3 cryoed Hubbell 5362's as opposed to one Oyaide or Furutech and leaving the other two as stock? I don't know. The only way you'd find out is to try, so it can get expensive and time consuming.
The Shunyata and Jena Labs are both cryoed Hubbell 5362's. If you're considering those I would just purchase them from Takefiveaudio in Canada taking advantage of the lower Canadian dollar and paying much less than you would from Jena or Shunyata.
Gene will also fully burn in the receptacle(s) for $9 which I would highly recommend you do. Either that or stick your refrigerator on each half of the receptacle for a couple of weeks (about a month in total) before you consider slotting it into your system.
The Oyaide R1 is a very good receptacle and much better than both a stock Hubbell 5362 and cryoed Hubbell 5362 IMO. So I don't agree with the "review" of the Jena on the Jena website which compares it to the R1. I have no experience with the R0, which is supposed to be an interesting option as well and has unplated contacts as opposed to the platinum plated R1. Both have beryllium copper contacts.
Unlike Furutech, which cryogenically treats their receptacles before shipping, Oyaide does not cryo treat as standard; if you want cryo, which IMO will improve the R1 (I've used it both cryoed and non-cryoed), you are going to have to buy it from a seller who will treat it for you, or have it treated yourself.
Any receptacle will be subject to burn in but cryoed units will changed drastically in sonic character over the course of at least 30 days if not subject to burn in on something like an Audiodharma cable cooker or extensive use on a high current appliance like a refrigerator or chest freezer. The Oyaides are notorious for a very long burn in period-if you can have them burned in before you receive them it would also be highly recommended. If not, I'd be inclined to run them on your fridge for at least 5-6 weeks in total, maybe even a bit longer.
The Furutech GTX receptacles do get raves but they are very expensive. Furutech claims "pure copper" contacts-I've never been able to figure out how they achieve this but you will rarely find anything but absolute raves about the GTX models (as opposed to the much less expensive Furutech options). The standard plating options for the GTX are rhodium and gold. The gold will be warmer, the rhodium more analytical. I believe there may be a new GTX (or higher) model on the block as well and there are a ton of other competitors out there now in a real range of prices. It's hard to keep up with all of them.
So choose your poison. It's a bit complicated and a bit of a crapshoot. If you use 3-4 receptacles to power your system, would you be better off buying 3 cryoed Hubbell 5362's as opposed to one Oyaide or Furutech and leaving the other two as stock? I don't know. The only way you'd find out is to try, so it can get expensive and time consuming.
Mike-48 said:
If I were going to change outlets, I'd put in hospital-grade outlets by Hubbell or Leviton (or other respected manufacturer). They are made with far better specs and materials than contractor-grade outlets, and they don't carry the audiophile price premium. They will last longer than we will.
That's what I used when I built my basement room.
If I were going to change outlets, I'd put in hospital-grade outlets by Hubbell or Leviton (or other respected manufacturer). They are made with far better specs and materials than contractor-grade outlets, and they don't carry the audiophile price premium. They will last longer than we will.
That's what I used when I built my basement room.
blakep said:
While it's true that hospital grades will be built to a higher standard than typical contractor grade it's important to note a couple of things.
Firstly 90% of the hospital grades out there have nickel plated contacts (the Hubbell 8200H and 8300H which are slim line hospital grades and special order only, are two of the few which I know of that do not) which will definitely affect the sonic performance of the receptacle-while it is entirely subjective, the general consensus among those who have experimented is that the nickel plating will be a negative.
Secondly, most hospital grades manufactured today will also have steel backstraps. Almost all of the so-called audiophile receptacles take pains to eliminate ferrous metals in their receptacles as this is another area that seemingly affects performance.
Finally, the Hubbell 5362 or 5262 in 15 amp form referred to here and in most other threads on audio forums is a heavy duty spec grade receptacle built to very high quality standards, in fact the same standards as Hubbell's hospital grades. It does, however, have non-plated contacts (which are as hefty as those in the hospital grades) and eliminates the steel backstrap in favour of non-ferrous brass.
So the HBL 5362 (Hubbell also makes an inferior CR 5362-this should be avoided) will give you all of the good of their hospital grade without any of the bad and also does not carry any "audiophile premium". Which is why Shunyata, Jena and other audiophile companies tend to use it as the basis for their receptacles.
Personally, I would avoid any hospital grades other than the HBL 8300H (as opposed to straight 8200/8300 with no "H" designation) and current 8300H's would not be my first choice because of the steel backstrap.
When I experimented with receptacles years ago I spent about 18 months doing it with units from different manufacturers including Hubbell, Leviton, Bryant, Arrow-Hart, Pass and Seymour, Eagle and others, both spec/industrial grade and hospital grade.
If you don't want to pay audiophile prices, stick with the HBL 5262 or 5362.
There's better performance out there, but it comes at a price.
While it's true that hospital grades will be built to a higher standard than typical contractor grade it's important to note a couple of things.
Firstly 90% of the hospital grades out there have nickel plated contacts (the Hubbell 8200H and 8300H which are slim line hospital grades and special order only, are two of the few which I know of that do not) which will definitely affect the sonic performance of the receptacle-while it is entirely subjective, the general consensus among those who have experimented is that the nickel plating will be a negative.
Secondly, most hospital grades manufactured today will also have steel backstraps. Almost all of the so-called audiophile receptacles take pains to eliminate ferrous metals in their receptacles as this is another area that seemingly affects performance.
Finally, the Hubbell 5362 or 5262 in 15 amp form referred to here and in most other threads on audio forums is a heavy duty spec grade receptacle built to very high quality standards, in fact the same standards as Hubbell's hospital grades. It does, however, have non-plated contacts (which are as hefty as those in the hospital grades) and eliminates the steel backstrap in favour of non-ferrous brass.
So the HBL 5362 (Hubbell also makes an inferior CR 5362-this should be avoided) will give you all of the good of their hospital grade without any of the bad and also does not carry any "audiophile premium". Which is why Shunyata, Jena and other audiophile companies tend to use it as the basis for their receptacles.
Personally, I would avoid any hospital grades other than the HBL 8300H (as opposed to straight 8200/8300 with no "H" designation) and current 8300H's would not be my first choice because of the steel backstrap.
When I experimented with receptacles years ago I spent about 18 months doing it with units from different manufacturers including Hubbell, Leviton, Bryant, Arrow-Hart, Pass and Seymour, Eagle and others, both spec/industrial grade and hospital grade.
If you don't want to pay audiophile prices, stick with the HBL 5262 or 5362.
There's better performance out there, but it comes at a price.
Metralla said:
Replaced the outlets a few times in my apartment. No dedicated lines, of course. Made a difference and cost very little. At one stage Blake let me try one of the Oyaide R1 and I could hear the difference over my silver-plated P&S 5962s. Get what you can afford.
Replaced the outlets a few times in my apartment. No dedicated lines, of course. Made a difference and cost very little. At one stage Blake let me try one of the Oyaide R1 and I could hear the difference over my silver-plated P&S 5962s. Get what you can afford.
Warren Jarret steps in to join in on the trolling:
Now this is a lie to sidetrack this thread, unless your new wood cover was high-density African Ebony, cryo treated, and marketed by a high-end audio guru at a price of at least $99. By the way, i am accepting orders (not).
Lee likes to talk about how much money he has:
LeeS said:
I've had significant improved performance from the Furutech NCF and Synergistic Research Black outlets I added to my listening room. It's a nice affordable tweak that really works.
I've had significant improved performance from the Furutech NCF and Synergistic Research Black outlets I added to my listening room. It's a nice affordable tweak that really works.
Metralla said:
Affordable? Those NCFs are among the most expensive outlets you can buy.
Affordable? Those NCFs are among the most expensive outlets you can buy.
lonelysea said:
Why do the snarkiest comments always come from the people with no equipment profiles?
Why do the snarkiest comments always come from the people with no equipment profiles?
Gary said:
It's a real mystery, eh?
It's a real mystery, eh?
Blakep said:
No doubt. Albert is offering a good product at a reasonable price. If you read his description of the product it is pretty much a rehash of what I've posted above haha!
Porter Port Porter Port outlets Cryo various colors | AC Distribution | Dallas, Texas 75231 | Audiogon
What he appears to be selling now is a custom 8300H with a brass backstrap (which is a good thing). The 8300H slimline has always had unplated contacts (the same contacts in terms of size and 20 amp configuration that the HBL 5362 has always had) and the old 8300H's also had the non-ferrous backstrap-I have cryoed versions of the older HBL 8300H, 8200H, 5362 and 5262 still in use here in my line conditioner. For anyone not using 20 amp equipment with 20 amp male plugs the 5262 actually makes more sense as it has a unique contact configuration in the 15 amp version as opposed to any other manufacturers, who all use generic 20 amp contacts that will take the T-male in both their 15 and 20 amp versions.
But I digress.
For those on a budget, Gene at Takefive still has the best price with the HBL 5362, which would not be audibly distinguishable (at least in my experience) from the Porter Port and can be purchased cryoed AND fully burned in on an Audiodharma cable cooker for the equivalent of $34 USD at current exchange rates.
The whole receptacle thing is complicated. With respect to some other posts in this thread it's important to distinguish which model of Oyaide or Furutech, for example, that one has used when making comparisons to those or any other models.
So when one says that Furutech is better than Oyaide for example, which Furutech are you referring to and which Oyaide? Both manufacturers have down market receptacles, for example Oyaide SWO variants and Furutech FPX variants, which sell for much lower prices and offer lesser performance, probably only marginally better than a Porter Port or cryoed HBL 5362 from Gene at Takefive. On the other hand, the Oyaide R1 and R0 and the Furutech GTX's are in a different league altogether (IMO) in terms of performance.
And price may not always be an indicator of performance. The original PS Audio Power Port, for example, was really nothing more than a Hubbell 8300 Hospital Grade (which could be purchased for half the price) with extra nickel plating on the contacts, which is actually detrimental to performance. I loaned out a cryoed HBL 5262 for a few weeks, which I had about $17 U.S. into in terms of the receptacle and cryo, about 3-4 years ago to someone locally that had the latest PS Audio Power Port Premier, which sells for around $100 U.S. and he preferred the cryoed 5262 by a fairly wide margin. He was going to source a few from the local electrical supply house and have them cryoed at the facility that I've used locally to do all my stuff.
No doubt. Albert is offering a good product at a reasonable price. If you read his description of the product it is pretty much a rehash of what I've posted above haha!
Porter Port Porter Port outlets Cryo various colors | AC Distribution | Dallas, Texas 75231 | Audiogon
What he appears to be selling now is a custom 8300H with a brass backstrap (which is a good thing). The 8300H slimline has always had unplated contacts (the same contacts in terms of size and 20 amp configuration that the HBL 5362 has always had) and the old 8300H's also had the non-ferrous backstrap-I have cryoed versions of the older HBL 8300H, 8200H, 5362 and 5262 still in use here in my line conditioner. For anyone not using 20 amp equipment with 20 amp male plugs the 5262 actually makes more sense as it has a unique contact configuration in the 15 amp version as opposed to any other manufacturers, who all use generic 20 amp contacts that will take the T-male in both their 15 and 20 amp versions.
But I digress.
For those on a budget, Gene at Takefive still has the best price with the HBL 5362, which would not be audibly distinguishable (at least in my experience) from the Porter Port and can be purchased cryoed AND fully burned in on an Audiodharma cable cooker for the equivalent of $34 USD at current exchange rates.
The whole receptacle thing is complicated. With respect to some other posts in this thread it's important to distinguish which model of Oyaide or Furutech, for example, that one has used when making comparisons to those or any other models.
So when one says that Furutech is better than Oyaide for example, which Furutech are you referring to and which Oyaide? Both manufacturers have down market receptacles, for example Oyaide SWO variants and Furutech FPX variants, which sell for much lower prices and offer lesser performance, probably only marginally better than a Porter Port or cryoed HBL 5362 from Gene at Takefive. On the other hand, the Oyaide R1 and R0 and the Furutech GTX's are in a different league altogether (IMO) in terms of performance.
And price may not always be an indicator of performance. The original PS Audio Power Port, for example, was really nothing more than a Hubbell 8300 Hospital Grade (which could be purchased for half the price) with extra nickel plating on the contacts, which is actually detrimental to performance. I loaned out a cryoed HBL 5262 for a few weeks, which I had about $17 U.S. into in terms of the receptacle and cryo, about 3-4 years ago to someone locally that had the latest PS Audio Power Port Premier, which sells for around $100 U.S. and he preferred the cryoed 5262 by a fairly wide margin. He was going to source a few from the local electrical supply house and have them cryoed at the facility that I've used locally to do all my stuff.
Three quid said:
I use the furutech NCF in my system, and once’s it’s broken In, it’s pretty amazing - the highs especially. Mine took around a month of usage to break-in and settle down. Prior to break-in it was a roller coaster ride, and not a fun one. I’d recommend breaking it in on a fridgerator for about a month before inserting it in your main rig.
I use the furutech NCF in my system, and once’s it’s broken In, it’s pretty amazing - the highs especially. Mine took around a month of usage to break-in and settle down. Prior to break-in it was a roller coaster ride, and not a fun one. I’d recommend breaking it in on a fridgerator for about a month before inserting it in your main rig.
lonelysea said:
Magic crystals aside, I believe you have a legitimate argument and every reason to be skeptical of what we’re discussing here. My simple suggestion is that there is possibly a wide margin between the measurements you’re talking about (from an electrical engineering standpoint) and understanding or even quantifying what the human ear is capable of discerning. In other words; a voltmeter can’t begin to measure the sensitivity and accuracy of our hearing.
Magic crystals aside, I believe you have a legitimate argument and every reason to be skeptical of what we’re discussing here. My simple suggestion is that there is possibly a wide margin between the measurements you’re talking about (from an electrical engineering standpoint) and understanding or even quantifying what the human ear is capable of discerning. In other words; a voltmeter can’t begin to measure the sensitivity and accuracy of our hearing.
