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Post by graucho on Dec 5, 2020 12:51:28 GMT
As least ItCotCK is an enjoyable listen. I'm going through Pitchfork's Top 100 Albums of the 1970s (I'm a list guy - sue me) and threw on 'Starless & Bible Black' and it's completely soulless crap. The presets on my keyboard have more soul. Isn't all King Crimson soulless? In the Court of the Crimson King is like the Moody Blues goes to junior college; Starless and Bible Black is like Henry Cow demoted from Cambridge to junior college, with a huge stick shoved up its ass as a parting gift. Those are not compliments, but white boy rock is a minefield fraught with lots of shameful time-wasting anyway. That said, Starless and Bible Black has a few things going in its favor: 1) Not too many vocals, so there are fewer crappy lyrics to endure — and King Crimson have consistently featured the worst lyrics of all time. 2) Not too many vocals, so there are fewer crappy King Crimson vocal stylings to endure — and King Crimson have consistently featured the worst vocalists of all time. 3) No matter how many times you listen to side two, you won't ever remember any of it. laughed out loud.
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Post by kingdiamond on Dec 5, 2020 13:19:17 GMT
When it comes to the dark angular prog I'm not supposed to be embarrassed about liking, I think Van Der Graaf Generator were a far more interesting band than King Crimson ever were. They injected a decent amount of humanity into their music too. Honestly, if it wasn't for the debut and bits and bobs of the John Wetton albums, I could do without most of King Crimson.
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Post by graucho on Dec 5, 2020 23:53:38 GMT
Van De Graff Gen would be my pick too.
King Crimson fans remind me a bit of hard core Zappa ones. They seem to mistakenly think they are on some kind of higher level (in terms of musical appreciation) over anyone else. I have time for Zappa in small doses, but seriously - does a genius really come up with something so sterile or puerile as his 80s material? I am sure they exist somewhere, but I have never come across a woman who professes much love for either King Crimson or Zappa, let alone thinking that this is something to measure their own significance by.
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Post by hoffa_nagila on Dec 6, 2020 0:03:02 GMT
Seeing them perform Starless remains a concert highlight for me. I didn't know any of the songs going into the show (except 21st Century) and I'm happy to keep that one night the extent of my King Crimson interest.
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Post by kingdiamond on Dec 6, 2020 0:35:47 GMT
Van De Graff Gen would be my pick too. King Crimson fans remind me a bit of hard core Zappa ones. They seem to mistakenly think they are on some kind of higher level (in terms of musical appreciation) over anyone else. I have time for Zappa in small doses, but seriously - does a genius really come up with something so sterile or puerile as his 80s material? I am sure they exist somewhere, but I have never come across a woman who professes much love for either King Crimson or Zappa, let alone thinking that this is something to measure their own significance by.
I guess if I'm perfectly honest with myself, I'm a self loathing fan of a lot of progressive music. It's the other "fans" who drive me bonkers. Whether on SHTV or a forum like Progressive Ears, the fans take themselves and the music far too fucking seriously. I mean, Deadheads are just annoying, but they're also generally kindhearted, even if some of them smell bad. But the weirdos and intellectual wannabes that hang onto every non sequitur composed by Jon Anderson can drive anyone out of a room almost instantaneously with their unrelenting douchery. Maybe I'm fooling myself but I also like to balance what I listen to with a fair dose of more tasteful music, whether it's something more modern or completely out of the realm of popular music. Hey, at least I know what I like is intellectually vapid, silly and pretentious but at least I can admit to it.
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Post by bigmuff on Dec 6, 2020 6:20:55 GMT
I feel the same way. I do have a fondness for a lot of RIO music (and, yeah, even a bit of King Crimson), but the fans are the worst, always prattling on about "musicianship" — which usually isn't all that, really; these over-rehearsed, lily-white Europeans wouldn't last three seconds in a Chic rehearsal or a Lee Scratch Perry session, and Robert Fripp wouldn't be able to negotiate his way through one change in "Giant Steps" with the Coltrane Quartet. I don't hold that against them, but if anyone really thinks that English progressive music of the 1970s represents some apex of musicianship, I am certainly going to laugh at that. The stuff I do have a love/hate thing for are those really eccentric European groups like Samla Mammas Manna or Stormy Six. It's more circus music than anything remotely related to rock. There are times when I think it is so over the top, it seems somewhat brilliant. And other times when I think this is the worst sort of trash and why-the-hell-am-I-listening-to-this. I am still not exactly sure what those groups thought they were doing. You and curr93 should team up and do some kind of Crossfire type thing. That'd be a dumpster fire worth seeing. Almost.
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Post by kingdiamond on Dec 6, 2020 13:12:37 GMT
I feel the same way. I do have a fondness for a lot of RIO music (and, yeah, even a bit of King Crimson), but the fans are the worst, always prattling on about "musicianship" — which usually isn't all that, really; these over-rehearsed, lily-white Europeans wouldn't last three seconds in a Chic rehearsal or a Lee Scratch Perry session, and Robert Fripp wouldn't be able to negotiate his way through one change in "Giant Steps" with the Coltrane Quartet. I don't hold that against them, but if anyone really thinks that English progressive music of the 1970s represents some apex of musicianship, I am certainly going to laugh at that. The stuff I do have a love/hate thing for are those really eccentric European groups like Samla Mammas Manna or Stormy Six. It's more circus music than anything remotely related to rock. There are times when I think it is so over the top, it seems somewhat brilliant. And other times when I think this is the worst sort of trash and why-the-hell-am-I-listening-to-this. I am still not exactly sure what those groups thought they were doing.
I thought Samla Mammas Manna was a RIO band? Maybe not, I'm not sure. I only have one of their albums and they remind me of Zappa in a way. But that's the other thing that pisses me off about progressive rock fandom. Everything has to be categorized and subgenred to death. I personally couldn't give two fucks if someone thinks Camel are a Canterbury band or a neoprog band but those are the kinds of factoids that keep an aging fanbase up at night.
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Post by bigmuff on Dec 6, 2020 16:27:57 GMT
93curr? Fuck that. You couldn't pay me enough to sit in the same room with some Zappa-listening incel fool. Ah, yeah. Got the name wrong.
But as for the second part - very fine line, my man. Very, very fine line.
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Post by graucho on Dec 6, 2020 19:00:48 GMT
I think this group fits in pretty well with the circus Euro prog description.
For the first whole minute it's like the Dave Clark 5 had been kidnapped, kept in an anarcho-hippy commune for 3 years and fed only lentils and The Mothers of..
Had to google RIO. Never heard this term before. All I can say, at least these groups probably had some kind of a vision. I think they were genuine outcomes of a counter-culture that doesn't really exist now. Or maybe it does I just don't know it.
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bradman
Better than Steve
Posts: 5,152
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Post by bradman on Dec 6, 2020 20:32:00 GMT
I'd like further insight into XTC as incel rock.
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Post by gary191265 on Dec 6, 2020 21:28:35 GMT
I'd like further insight into XTC as incel rock. Last one I thought of
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Post by graucho on Dec 6, 2020 21:36:45 GMT
XTC are one of my own personal incel groups. I don't think listening to them has ever coincided with period of an active sex life!
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Post by gary191265 on Dec 6, 2020 21:47:53 GMT
XTC are one of my own personal incel groups. I don't think listening to them has ever coincided with period of an active sex life! I have an active sex life but only listen to XTC when my wife's out of the house as she can't stand them.
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Post by graucho on Dec 6, 2020 22:00:09 GMT
XTC are one of my own personal incel groups. I don't think listening to them has ever coincided with period of an active sex life! I have an active sex life but only listen to XTC when my wife's out of the house as she can't stand them. shit that was supposed to read 'periodS'! What is your wife's opinion of Zappa and King Crimson?
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Post by gary191265 on Dec 6, 2020 22:13:07 GMT
I have an active sex life but only listen to XTC when my wife's out of the house as she can't stand them. shit that was supposed to read 'periodS'! What is your wife's opinion of Zappa and King Crimson? Unsurprisingly, she can't stand either, and she has fairly eclectic tastes, ya know, for a woman. I like the 'popular' Zappa stuff (Joe's Garage, Overnight Sensation, Apostrophe etc.), not into much else. King Crimson, I like Discipline and Red, that's it
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