j365
Sir Ringo
Posts: 644
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Post by j365 on Nov 5, 2021 7:27:05 GMT
We all laugh at Steve for his vanity forum, illegal lotteries, dubious endorsements, fishy donation scams, spliced tape reels, and for giving a platform to deplorables.
But comparatively less about the thing he’s supposed to be an expert on: mastering? I read on here a few mentions about a DCC Cars disc that got screwed and the Al Green disc that used the wrong sources.
What are some of Steve’s other egregious errors in mastering? (You know - the sort that if Giles Martin did it, SHF would go nuts)
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daved
Better than Steve
Posts: 10,614
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Post by daved on Nov 5, 2021 10:01:29 GMT
Didn’t he fuck up The Pretenders debut by missing the telephone sound on The Phone Call? And putting a gap after it?
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daved
Better than Steve
Posts: 10,614
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Post by daved on Nov 5, 2021 10:14:54 GMT
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bradman
Better than Steve
Posts: 5,150
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Post by bradman on Nov 5, 2021 10:43:38 GMT
His supposed Steely Dan ones are the worst Dan CDs you can get. Katy Lied is a flawed recording, but the Hoffman adds an extra thick blanket over your speakers. His Who's Next is "okay", but has clipping that would be a hard no for ShItes from any other engineer. His Meaty Beaty...is a mess. Who's Missing is decent.
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Post by mudflapslim on Nov 5, 2021 11:50:26 GMT
His Twilley Don't Mind CD by the Dwight Twilley Band switched what had been the first song on each side with each other. Was he already vicodin addled in 1990?
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banana
Olivia Newton-John
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Post by banana on Nov 5, 2021 12:11:21 GMT
Every Hoffman master I have heard has the same midrange EQ bump which, after two or three songs, really starts to knuckle its way into your brain. I can't get through even one of his remasters because of this. Once you've noticed it you can't ignore it - it gives me a headache.
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Sounds.. ago
Amy Grant
This is not a secret club. This is my forum.
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Post by Sounds.. ago on Nov 5, 2021 12:39:57 GMT
Every Hoffman master I have heard has the same midrange EQ bump which, after two or three songs, really starts to knuckle its way into your brain. I can't get through even one of his remasters because of this. Once you've noticed it you can't ignore it - it gives me a headache. Gear profile, please.
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Post by Boozin' Susan on Nov 5, 2021 12:49:07 GMT
No discussion of STeVE’s mastering EQ consulting would be complete without mentioning Bob Ezrin joining SHF for the expressed purpose of (virtually) punching Hoffman square in the face. The whole exchange has been poated here before (as it’s such an evergreen), so why not again? First, marvel at how STeVE effortlessly maintains his douchebag credentials with his over-the-top-and-well-into-the-next-county OP. Then, really enjoy the feeling of satisfaction as Bob Ezrin turns up to tear Hoofy a new one! And be sure not to miss STeVE’s lame attempt to ingratiate himself to Mr. Ezrin (who isn’t impressed at all). The whole affair likely proved to Marsha at AF that Stevie-boy was more of a liability than an asset, as Hoffman’s projects seemed to get less and less prestigious from this point on. Enjoy! Great sounding album, maybe the best Alice? Today at Stephen Marsh Mastering in the Hollywood Hills we nailed this one. It was a tense session because the tapes were pretty typically messy due to age but messy is my middle name... At any rate, Stephen, second engineer Fernando Lee and I were patiently mastering the Alice Cooper for Audio Fidelity. We did our usual split feed, DSD take and CD take, both at the same time. The tapes were the original mix compilation reels that were done at the Record Plant back in the day. Each reel had the dates of the original mixes and what mix "take" was pulled to this album comp. There was also a big note on each reel saying: DO NOT USE FOR ANY PRODUCTION WORK, USE EQ DUB CUTTING MASTER. And for good reason. The master songs had many edits in each song , many level changes and, wacky as it seems, some of the songs required different level setups and Dolby A adjusting due to differing balance levels, no big deal. Some of the songs were mixed in 1972, some in 1973 and each side of the album masters had a different set of tones to go with it. Yikes. No way a phonograph record in the old days could be cut from these complicated master reels, so a "mastered" copy with EQ and compression was generated and all lacquers, parts, etc. were cut from that, bypassing this original set so sides could be cut without stopping. However, us brave dudes decided to plug ahead and use these two original reels since we were not cutting phonograph records and could start and stop after each song. First, Stephen Marsh went in and fixed each and every edit (the glue on the splice tape had bled over the years and it was a sticky mess at each of the many edit points). No baking of the tape was required as the tape stock was from the good year of 1972. Tape still played fine, no shedding whatsoever. Good news. Once the splices were scrubbed and fixed, Stephen's Dolby expertise went into effect and he aligned the ATR analog playback deck with his custom Dolby A box until it was perfect (at least for the first few songs). On side two for whatever reason the levels were off by 2 db on most songs, throwing the Dolby alignment off so we just realigned, same as they did back in the day and for the Greatest Hits CD. Then, we transferred, one at a time, using our special brand of mastering knowledge and dumb luck. None of the songs sounded tone-wise like any other songs on there, each had a different and nicely subtle but unique sound. obvious on our top notch modern gear, probably not so obvious on monitors back in the day.. Now on the old LP they made all of them sound similar by filtering and compressing but that was not our goal. I personally don't care what the old LP sounded like unless it had amazing sound (and this one didn't compared to the actual master mixes, the vinyl was too compressed and compromised, a long album on two vinyl sides). I want YOU to hear what the band and producer got to hear back at the Record Plant in 1973 so I left the tonal changes intact for the most part from song to song but at the same time I made sure each one sounded the best it could in the context of "what they were obviously going for" back then, same as I've done on almost every project I've worked on since 1982. The intent of the original artist/producer/engineer is always the main goal. At any rate, it took a long time today, high-priced designer pizza was delivered and we took a break but mainly we worked on this, one song at a time, having to fix levels, Dolby levels, EQ (usually the tape box notes were pretty right on) and other "tricks" for each and every song while having to "MRL" the machine back to neutral/normal after each one so we could carry on and on. The album holds up nicely. I had a retro-type girlfriend in the 1980's who LOVED this album (she thought she was so cool to like something from an earlier era, I thought "eh, big deal") but I was reminded of her throughout the day. A weird feeling but I'm sure she will dig this new version. As always, it's very important to me that the ORIGINAL VINTAGE mixes were used. A bunch of extra crossfades, solo guitar strums and other goofy stuff was still on the reels after the leader and I'm glad they wisely decided to not use any of them in the final release.[ATTACH=full]303228[/ATTACH] Hope you all like this one. Steve, I have to say I'm a little surprised to read this description of our work. We were judicious about lining up our machines to our set standard and the techs at the Record Plant were the best in the business (having all been graduates of A&R Studios). The only discrepancies should have been between the original album and any "bonus" material that someone may have added later. Also if our cross fades had been moved to the back of the reel, that was something that I'd bet the label would have done when we got to the era of iTunes. Are these in fact the real original tapes? I'd love to see those tape boxes - so maybe you'd be so good as to put up some pics of them. I'd really appreciate it. I'll keep watching here to see if that happens. And finally, I wonder why no one bothered to contact any of the creators of that stuff before doing this. It's not like we're that tough to find. I'm just saying. Bob Ezrin One more thing: the way we made records, the mastering was an integral part of the process. No one took our stuff and reinterpreted it for purposes of mastering. What was mastered back then is what we wanted to hear. Regardless of your take on the quality of the sound of the original album, that IS what we were going for and that's the sound that any true fan ought to be looking for. What you seem to be doing is re-imagining our work using interim stage components. The EQ'd master was the final stage of production for me. I was in the room, hands on knobs, throughout that process in order to get what I wanted to hear on the vinyl as best we could given the limitations of that medium. I'm not opposed to re-mastering early works. But I think it's important to try to maintain the intent of the creators in the process. As the head creator of that album, I have to say that reading this report makes me somewhat skeptical about what you guys did there. I'd be happy to listen to the results and give you feedback if you would be open to that. Bob Ezrin Bob, funny, Stephen Marsh and I were both singing your praises yesterday. Were your ears burning? Regarding your note, we are not reissuing anything on vinyl, there are NO limitations, no need to compress or to filter bass or top end. You understand that this is no compromise Hi-Rez DSD via SACD. Can this be the first time in 31 years of doing this that a producer doesn't want their work to sound the best that it can? I am sure that is not what you want. After all, this is the fourth Alice Cooper digital reissue we've done and by far the best sounding. Bob, we don't use EQ'd dubs, we only use true masters and meticulously work on them to sound the best, just as I've been doing since 1982 on thousands of reissues. We always spend hours getting the crucial vintage Dolby A gear aligned and we always spend many hours fixing splices, etc., part of the job on 40 year old tapes. The sound you'll hear on this new SACD is the sound YOU produced. We didn't tamper with anything, we never do. We don't revise history, we don't change history, we just let the original mixes shine through as always, without added needless limiting/compression or ANY "modern" tampering. This will be the first Audiophile release of this album and we're proud of the way it came out. I talk about the process here to drum up some interest in the release just as I've been doing on everything I reissue, from McCartney, Dylan to Nat King Cole. Just contact me via PM and I'll have the studio send you a CD check disk, my treat. I'm sure you'll be happy with the sound. after all, it's the sound that you created. [ATTACH=full]303451[/ATTACH] Steve, you're missing my point. Based on what I read here, I'm not sure what master you're working off of. Our album had crossfades (the "crossfade outtakes" referred to on the box are the left over tops and tails that we would edit out when we edited in our crossfades). If you have a tape that is missing the cross-fades then it's a later generation than our master. If there are different tone levels on mixes then those are mixes from different places. Our album was mixed at the Record Plant in Studio A - always on the same machine, always with the same tones. The EQ master is the closest thing to what we wanted our album to sound like in the end. I don't expect you to use that. But I also don't expect you to dismiss it as not being the way we intended it. WE created it. So that's the closest expression of our vision at the time. Of course I want it to sound great. Of course I'd love to hear it without the limitations imposed by vinyl. But while you're making something that wants to be sounding the way WE intended, I'd just like to know that you're actually paying attention to OUR master and that you're actually working off of our final mixes. In the end, the easiest way to ensure that you're doing something that accurately reflects the intent of the creators would be to involve one of us in the process. As I said: we're not that hard to find. Finally, I do appreciate all the time and hard work that you're putting into this and I'm not trying to quash interest in the new product. I just got a little worried when I read your original post. Bob So Ezrin is lying? Re read his post. He is not lying, just a bit confused. Once again, you see the photo? Stop causing trouble. Bob and I have spoken. He told me one of Alice's super-fans flagged the posting for him because he was upset at the inference that his "precious BDB was less than perfect in its form." Since all 40 year old master tapes are usually messed up like this this is a non-issue. With this pointless stuff I have to reluctantly end any and all future AF "Adventures In Mastering" threads. This will be the last one. I really, really hope you don't end the 'Adventure In Mastering' threads. They are such a great read and very informative. Pat I've been told to end them, sad to say.
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bradman
Better than Steve
Posts: 5,150
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Post by bradman on Nov 5, 2021 14:18:18 GMT
The classics endure.
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j365
Sir Ringo
Posts: 644
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Post by j365 on Nov 5, 2021 14:42:09 GMT
His supposed Steely Dan ones are the worst Dan CDs you can get. Katy Lied is a flawed recording, but the Hoffman adds an extra thick blanket over your speakers. His Who's Next is "okay", but has clipping that would be a hard no for ShItes from any other engineer. His Meaty Beaty...is a mess. Who's Missing is decent. What happened with the Meaty, Beaty….?
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bradman
Better than Steve
Posts: 5,150
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Post by bradman on Nov 5, 2021 15:56:17 GMT
The source tapes are all over the place. Some tracks are OK, others are really bad.
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Post by kingdiamond on Nov 5, 2021 16:45:32 GMT
Most of SH's work sounds neutered to my ears. I guess bass and treble are not desirable in Steve Land. Or maybe that's the midrange bump I'm hearing that someone else mentioned. There are a few here and there that are pretty good, but I don't think everything needs to sound like it was made to sound so "warm" on 10wpc tube amps. I'm not sure how many of his discs I've actually heard, probably a small fraction, but I've never gone out of my way to hear his versions.
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Sounds.. ago
Amy Grant
This is not a secret club. This is my forum.
Posts: 1,990
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Post by Sounds.. ago on Nov 5, 2021 16:54:55 GMT
I've only heard a few of Der Hoofmeister's EQ consultations. The McCartney DCC isn't bad.
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Post by krabapple on Nov 5, 2021 18:29:08 GMT
A singular aspect of Steve-o's work is his boneheaded, Luddite refusal to re-create 'effects' and edits that were added to the work after the final mixdown.
2 examples from the world of prog:
Jethro Tull's Thick as a Brick, side 1 was originally mastered in two sections. The actual record had the two recorded sections edited together, so it's a seamless side-long track. Of course you'd want to release it this way forever after. Duh, right? It's they way everyone has heard it since 1971. But Hoffman's has a gap. Because he refuses to do elementary digital joining, which despite his numbskull fears, is a lossless process.
Yes's 90125 has a fade-in on the track 'Our Song'. The original master tape does not, meaning the fade was created during cutting, something occasionally done back in the predigital era. But that makes it verboten to Hoffman, despite reflecting Trevor Horn et al's intent back in 1983. On Tonmeister's remasturbation, the track start starts full-on.
And an example of simple incompetence:
Yes's Going for the One is a shrill, reverb-soaked overproduced sonic dog that no amount of hi-rez tube fapping could rescue. But AF went ahead and remasturbated it for SACD anyway. It's the only SACD I've ever encountered where the *DSD* layer exhibits clipping, but the CD layer doesn't.
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Post by Mind The Gap on Nov 5, 2021 18:36:27 GMT
The Morrison Hotel mix-up was classic. People who bought the disc noticed there was noise/clicking (or something along those lines, I’d look it up but the thread was gorfed, naturally). Steve-o blamed the huddled masses that their equipment was too mid-fi and that better equipment would hide the flaws. When confronted with the absurdity of that notion he went in to the blame-the-pressing-plant shell game. And if I’m remembering correctly the replacement CD was fucked up too so it had to be pressed again.
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